Here's what a British Airways World Cargo 747 would sound like going over Ramsgate. I shot this bit of tape during the training flight, er, nightmare of 2007, in daylight hours. So you'll just have to imagine what effect it would have on you while you're snuggled up in your luxury, Hungarian goosedown doona. And no, I haven't doctored the sound track one iota.
Once you've had a peek at that, do take a moment to vote in my latest poll in the sidebar on the right. It's timed to end on Thursday, while the chaps at our beloved council are meeting to
53 comments:
A bit disingenuous of you to have a poll when you know most of the hicks/country bumpkinsBeavis/Buttheads who frequent your blog are from the anti everything brigade ECR.
Think to even it up I'll vote a hundred times for "Yes please - Gizza job".
Disingenuous, my arrrrrrse. I am deeply offended that this will be repeated very 9 minutes.
Anyone out there can explain how the 11 flights will actually be 22 or is there a catch to the 22, we should be told.
Please tell us how the figures for jobs has been obtained and where you can be trained up to be a 747 crew/captain and loader in say 3 months...no thought not back to catch 22 then!!!
Nurse!!!! some reality pills please for TDC...how Extraordinary
Some people have such little regard for the qualities which make Ramsgate a good place to live. Many of them also seem to find it easy to deride and insult those around them.
I suspect that this behaviour is commonplace throughout the world.
My advice for those urgently seeking work in the aviation industry, is to seriously consider applying to those locations where such viable facilities not only already exist, but have clearly done so for many years.
If one doesn't appreciate the nature of the location, the opportunities, or the people around you, then I'm sure you would have no difficulty in finding somewhere more conducive to your qualities and disposition.
No let us all keep thanet the capital of the deprived communities no prospects for employment or careers for young people or those out of work, let us continue to complain about everything, do nothing and protest against every or any opportunity that presents itself Geoff Hoon called everyone whingers so ER keep whinging or you could get real and get a life
There are lots of careers in England and they do not all exist in Thanet. My two youngsters are fine living and working away from Ramsgate...loads of money outside of this area?
The jobs issues is as week as TDC's 20 years communist plan.
So lets move on to those catch 22 flights and TDC's pink knickers?
Thanks ECR. The throbbing of those jet engines really turn me on. And the prospect of all those fly boys with their gold braid and rugged good looks dropping in and out the sky at such regular intervals is almost too much for a nice shy girl like me to handle.
Come on Sandy Beach. Bring on the Roll Royce RB211's and beefcake. They are much more interesting than washed up poorly firemen with their little hoses that you have hanging around the council chamber.
Love, Laura
Your opposed to flights in and out of Manston and yet I'm sure you have yourself used air transport its OK to inconvenience large swathes of London but not in your backyard all rather hypocritical.
Also why live near the flight path?
You do have free will
I have a fairly busy road in front of my house it would be nice if it could be made into a cul de sac but that would be a bit selfish!
Get double glazing
I've eaten beef, but i might not like to find a vast herd of cattle wandering the streets' although, thinking about it, their pollutive deposits do have horticultural uses.
Also, no, I am currently living on a 'proposed' airport expansion flightpath, which is a bit like already having my cul-de-sac, only to find plans afoot to build a major trunk road in its place.
Free will means that things are not
simply predetermined by some 'higher agency'. Apart from widespread arson, which as we all know is an Act of God...
Been nominated for a BAFTA for your cinematic efforts ?
Thought one of those gold masks would look good on your mantlepiece ECR.
My Grade 2 Georgian building in a conservation are is not allowed to have double glazing.
If you accept a poor way of life that is up to you. Some of us strive for better and in doing so improve the lives of people around us. I have invested in Ramsgate and do not want that emotional and financial investment to be wasted.
Any benefits of jobs created at Manston will be lost when discerning people like me move away with our money. Ramsgate does not have to continue to be ignored, full of losers and accepting of low standards. It is a truly unique and beautiful place that deserves more than to be the approach to a cargo airport.
Ramsgate is regularly featured on TV and in the press as being up and coming. Those who are accepting of the airport are doing their best to put an end to that.
It is a terrible crime to allow this to happen.
Does anybody know what all the plane noise was yesterday (Saturday)? Was it training flights?
No, it was Flight 666 delivering revived communities; full employment; secure longterm careers for our children -who will never complain about that whinger Geoff Hoon- and a life. Or so I almost heard.
Be honest most of those complaining are probably well healed enough to have purchased property elsewhere as I said earlier why but a property on the approach to an airport.
And the muppet who refers to the expansion flight path, as far a I can tell there is no additional runway so presumably no change to approaching flights.
I cannot remember this level of hostility to EU jet, no doubt the same people were please at the thought of having a convenient airport.
Face if apart from children everyone has had the choice do I live near the airport or not for the last 60 plus years.
tony, what do you suggest for ramsgate if its not attractive to the huge proportion of the public who would not want to live under a flightpath? Abandon it? By saying you shouln't live here because of the noise, you and TDC/KCC confirm that noise is a problem.
Ramsgate predates the airbase. The airport has been around a decade. Its been a B-road since, now TDC want the M25 over the tops of our heads.
Your selfish needs for an airport 5 mins down the road once a year are at the inconvenience of thousands of ramsgate residents. If you are happy with that, enjoy it. Those who are not will continue to oppose the airport regardless of what you say.
That is just the point. You are killing our children with pollution and killing a new prosperous future for the area on the promise of very few jobs. Big news you sound like exactly the type of no hoper who has kept this place in the doldrums for years.
How many flights will fly over ramsgate do we think?
22 if its turn arounds and the odd one shoved in from others as has happened in the last year.
Tony the SPZ is at significant risk. When you look at the Commissions report on BAWC be afraid, be very afraid.
Tony please research the issues surrounding Manston i have no personnel animosity to you as you do fight your corner of Thanet very well, but KIA brings ...shall we say some very significant risks?
We could argue that we now have a very serious matter of Willful Misconduct in public office surrounding the S106 agreement?
smeg 9:01
Invicta Airways was founded in 1964 at Manston in Kent, UK. Two Vickers Vikings and two Douglas DC-4s were initially used for charter flights on behalf of touroperators; flights commenced in March 1965
Slightly more than a decade if my maths serve me well.
We used to have Vulcan Bombers and Victor re-fuelling tankers doing circuit and bumps all night and i cannot remember anyone complaining.
I also remember the foghorns at night and they were bloody loud,again no complaints and of course do not forget the hovercraft-first from Ramsgate and then Pegwell,the SRN4's were louder than any of the flights now going into Manston.
Moan if you have too,but at least let them try something or the airfield will be turned into a huge housing estate for even more unemployed people.
China Gateway will only work if Manston is used to capacity and hopefully one day Thanet Earth will start exporting. import/export will create jobs and that is what we need.
Utter tosh
Both airlines collapased for reasons that would be inappropriate to go over.
Vulcans and Victors did not train they were dumping fuel to crash land.
I can clearly recall a lot of ticked of residents when these events happened and who were we being controlled by at that time the Ramsgate BC.
The RAF and the airlines in question did not have to comply with any real laws and regulations and the environment did they.
We now live in an environment when news and information is more speedily available hence "Knowledge dispels fear" We now have a situation born out of shear mismanagement by TDC and KCC over Manston.
I would do some more research if i was you as your way out on a limb on this matter.
Fog horns Sr4/6s...my arrrrrse
Dear Tony, the subject matter of this polarised debate centres on the expansion of the use of the airport, hence the words 'airport expansion'.
Yor failure to grasp this point places the rest of your comments in a clearer light.
People in this area have been forced to adapt to badly planned developments for years, and none of the promised returns ever seem to filter down to those who need it most. A reduction in the quality of life and environment is not an Economic or Class issue. It hits everyone.
I object to assumptions that I am "Well healed" How narrow minded. I am not. Neither am I a short sighted fool who believes guff talked about job opportunities. (Like Thanet Earth you mean? Or how about the Isle of Grain? Good job opportunities there. For someone other than those from the local population)
I do however value the clean air and quality of life offered by the sea. I lived within 3 miles of a major airport for 20 years. If you think it is good for anyone, you are sadly ill informed.
SMEG from the word Smegma :a secretion of the sebaceous glands that collects under the foreskin or around the clitoris
To think that you have a say in the future of Thanet.
There does seem to be something a little incongruous about local people advocating an expanding airports flight path going over the top of them.
Though I would have though the resultant air pollution and its effects on people’s health would figure higher than anything.
One trouble is that Manston wasn’t built as a commercial airport so many aspects of its design are not really suitable and don’t seem to comply with the environmental and safety standards one would expect.
I agree. Are they mad?
How many flights will actually fly over ramsgate. I thought most of them would go the other way?
Well that depends if TDC can order the wind from a different direction. Expect 11 but be prepared for 22.
All will be QC4 on landing and take off as these are 747 400's.
Now if one of these lovely noisy planes lands over Ramsgate and has had a favourable wind from America be prepared to be woken up between 04:30 and 06:00 and remember what the 0 in time stands for, O my G-D its early.
The weak and supine TDC report is somewhat lax in that direction though is it not?
what is qc4? I don't understand you....,
The very fact that TDC is promoting this plan is cause for alarm: I visited Margate today and almost wept with frustration at what has been allowed to happen there in the last few years. TDC assured us that Westwood Cross wouldn't affect our towns - they haven't got a clue what they are doing, so I have absolutely no faith in their handling of the airport situation either.
Big News Margate,
I can see why you hate anyone who is against Manston expansion. Go on admit it.... you are a plane spotter. Wetting yourself with excitement at stoppping to take a photo of the latest Airbus okeykokey 2000 or whatever it was at Heathrow as you state in your blog. I am not against Mnston expansion but I am against people who call other people muppets because they do not agree with their little knicker-wetting hobbies.
If you have 11 planes fly in unless there is space to keep storing them they have to fly out again.I know a few planes have been dismantled out at Manston but I dont think can handle 11 a week.
I think it's time to turn up the heat on the Manston supporters. For years, those of us who don't think it's a good idea, have been subject to the most appalling abuse. We've been told that we have no right to an opinion, that our views don't count, that we are all manner of NIMBYs and that we are anti-progress.
However, what has the pro-brigade achieved? We've been lumbered with a useless airport that has visibly failed to produce anything like the 10,000 jobs that were promised. Now, once again, we are being told that our views don't count and that we are against progress if we don't agree with a crackpot scheme that will lead to the runiation of Thanet (well, the ruination of those bits the pro-brigade haven't ruined already with their unrealistic crackpot ideas).
I've had enough and, no, I'm not going to move. What I want is for all of the idiots who thought Manston was a great idea ten years ago to move out of Thanet and to go somewhere with an airport. Ideally you can all live under the flight-path since you don't think it is much of a problem. Leave Thanet to those of us who believe it is a beautiful place and should not be spoiled.
You've had long enough to turn the area round and your ideas have failed. So, it's time for you lot to sling your hook and to go somewhere else. You knew that Thanet was a quiet and peaceful place when you moved here. If you want noise and pollution you should go somewhere else.
I would love to see a chart showing the qualifications and propensity to work of those in favour of the airport. My suspicion is that they are largely a little bit backward. In every other area residents are fighting tooth and nail to keep air traffic away. The local people here are so 'mentally challenged' that they think its a good idea. They will get what they deserve. The only problem is they will have destroyed the huge opportunity of prosperity that Ramsgate has in it's hand that comes from it's historical and architectural heritage.
Well there are those who believe Ramsgate has a great future based on unique architecture, history and beauty. There are those who sit on their idle Thanet arses waiting for provision of jobs and "opportunities for our kids".
Both groups drink from the same contaminated aquifer. Both groups are wrong. Both groups are dreamers.
Note: must look up cyclohexanone induced altered reality state. Perhaps that is the cause of Thanet Throbber Syndrome.
#7-20 I think your post is brilliant, you may need to keep cutting & pasting it to other blogs until the numb nuts realise that their bully boy tactics will not work.
Peter nothing wrong with being anonymous, even those for the crackpot scheme do it.
'MR X'
No wonder why I am wondering why I ever moved to Thanet. The local politicians are all out for their own good and the local population are by in large decent, nice people but so unworldy it is beyone believe.
A regional cargo airport will only bring prosperity to the owners of the airport owners.
The extra jobs mentioned by one of our toothless simpletons on the council; include pilots, air traffic controllers and fireman.
Now can you imagine how many of the unemployed of Thanet qualify for these positions???
Jeez Scooty beam back to the suburbs of London!
When I go I will miss your "art" though Peter!
Mentally callenged discussions R us then. I get banned by SMEG because I dont agree with their views and now I am Mentally challenged. And I am the one being smeared as mentally challenged strange but am I the one who cant count or who blames every ill on TDC NO.I believe we have a unique oppertunity with Manston/China Gateway I dissagree with others but I dont slag them off call them names. I want Thanet to sucseed I want us to have full employment I want to see the high streets prosper Things dont stay the same Thanet is in the middle of a huge change and whilst I dont agree with all TDC do I believe they deserve our support and respect.
I feel exactly the same way. I am taking my investment and spending with me. These no hopers deserve what they get. Ramsgate as far as I am concerned is off the map. The airport is suicide.
My guess is Don you have no O levels
There's one thing that hasn't been properly discussed here - what would happen to Manston if the latest scheme doesn't get permission?
Does it stay as an aviation backwater, bringing in the occasional consignment of freight, some emergency landings and base for a flying training school. Not very profitable in the long term for Infratil methinks.
Infratil eventually sells up and goes away muttering
about what a waste of time and opportunity the whole thing was. Then you either get another operator with similar ambitions thinking they can make a go of it or the whole site is eventually sold off for redevelopment, possibly as a mix of residential or industrial use. There's little or no infrastructure to support that at the moment so there would be loads of building upheaval beyond just the airport site for a long time - which may or may not pollute the water aquifers.
I suppose there's an outside chance you could use the land to house some sort of expanded and revived Dreamland amusement park, gambling and leisure complex - turning the whole runway and adjoining area into England's answer to Sun City.
Turning the whole lot back to farmland could be interesting - a brave attempt to cut down food miles. It could even become Thanet Earth mark two!
If Manston can't develop and expand as an airport, as sees god know how many new homes built on it, then you can expect the population of Thanet to grow by around 30 per cent as a result. These people will need employment, in the ideal world, and they will be commuting increasing distances because there is little worth having on the doorstep.
Sorry but much as many dislike it, and I do feel sympathetic to the noise issue - I certainly wouldn't want to live under it, airport expansion seems inevitable to me - however few jobs that may bring.
Sorry if these appear to be random thoughts but what can you use a site that large for if not for housing and industrial buildings that most people are going to be happy with?
What the locals, politicians or born and bred Thanet folk cannot see is that prosperity is not going to come via the airport but through the fast-train link. Thanet will become commutable to London by this time next year. Towns like Brighton, Southend or even as near as Whitstable do not need to look for employers to ruin their environment for the sake of jobs as a large portion of the population earn their money away from the locale yet spend it locally which in turn generates jobs and of course wealth within the communities they live in.
The Thanet towns have so much potenial as nice, prosporous dormer towns.
If the choice is Orpington or Ramsgate if you were a commuter then where would you choose? I know because I made that choice!!
One vale square and age and sons does not a lovely town make.
10.49 that is the point exactly. The opportunity is massive. The airport would kill that opportunity and the town. You only have to look at the way that the seafront has been developed to see the potential. Towns on flight paths are impoverished and in decline. Nobody will move to live under a flight path.
I lived under the Gatwick flight path for 5 years with my wife and two kids, had no particular problem with it, you don't even notice the noise after a while.
Perhaps the Manston site should be seen as a potential resource, with the focus on the long term benefit to Thanet and its people. The provision of jobs is a major issue, and generally always has been here, so we could consider properly regulated light industrial use. We already have a harbour which carries freight, and the road built to serve it.
If the airport idea was viable then it would have worked a long time ago.
As for leisure use, it would have to be something pretty damn spectacular, ideally, attracting people from outside the area and again, providing jobs in significant numbers.
I'd rather see it left to nature than turned into housing.
@10.49
I agree, the train will be great. People will be able to commute more easily, and visit effortlessly too.
Hang on, it will bring risk at that speed. What if it derails at high speed and ploughs into housing or worse? Won't travelling at much higher speed require lots more energy and so be more polluting.
Let's put things back as they were in Ramsgates hey day, just to be on the safe side huh, coach and horses for travel. With a massive rich/poor divide and poor housing and food. Sounds like a job for SMEG...
Nige
Peter, I have tendered my resignation only as press officer, but it's been declined. Our campaign is very much alive. There is no anonimity within our group.
Nige and a few other posters, the airport has said the business as it is cannot be sustained. If they do not get this business, its dead in the water. If they do get it, is it enough?
Something more sustainable please, and something really forward looking; eco enginerring, green technology, maybe a new arm of Canterbury/Greenwich Uni nurturing green engineering talent for the future? Wind Farm? More Thanet Earth? Housing? Bit of everything?
That would be real forward thinking, somethign our local/county councils are not capable of. Look at their history;
Turner - 9 years and counting
Richborough Power station - heavy oil pollution anyone?
Hoverport - built, used, derelct, now pollutiing sulphorous slag into Pegwell
Pleasurama/Dreamland - empty, decaying, not replaced
Port - the two ferrries that use it will be obsolete in a few years, and new ferries are too big for it.
Airport - 20 years of nowt
China Gateway - championed all last year, this year the 2nd fastest fading economy in the world- behind us, of course.
Not a track record to be proud of, and we all will be back in horse and carts because of our incompetent leaders, not groups/thinkers like us
It's not about risk it's about quality of life
Interesting that people who don't live in Ramsgate seem to think the relaxaion of the 106 is a good idea!
Interesting that people who lived on a flight path previously didn't find it a problem - but they have moved.
So far the Tories running Thanet Council have not come up with a policy on night flights and I certainly wouldn't trust their, so far totally innefective, monitoring.
Hmmm, who decides what's best for the people of Ramsgate? The people of Ramsgate themselves or some old men carelessly wielding power and influence they never had (or deserved) in their working lives. High time the people of Ramsgate demanded their say, and told the outsiders to butt out.
We did mate at the Chatham house school unfortunately the tired old men did not listen...as well as MORI'.......s
lets re name SMEG ////NIMBY and get real about how these sad people try to delude the people of Thanet. Oops, Smeg will not understand the word delude, its more than one syllable. Oops that word was too long as well.
for a true definition of a NIMBY 1.23pm look up Paul Carter and Kent International Gateway.
Delude is what Infratil and the council are trying to do to the people of Thanet, and have succeeded with your weak mind. Fair debate is what we wish for so people of Thanet can make their own mind up.
We firmly believe that if the situation and future outlook of Manston is properly explained, people will oppose it en masse.
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