Friday, February 13, 2009

Good News!

Hurrah! Having had a quick chat with my local diminutive developer this morning, I'm told that my cliff top mansion could be a, er, hot property if marketed as a potential cannabis factory, or converted into ten bedsits for crystal meth crazed, swivel eyed, Stella swigging knuckle-shufflers! Kushti!

Just for the record, I suppose I should post the results of my Big Manston Poll. After an all time high of 254 votes, the results were:

Question: Do you support the proposed extension of night flying over Ramsgate?

No: 51% (132 votes)
Yes: 48% (122 votes)

As a postscript, I must say I find it a rather unfortunate irony that just a few days after Councillor/Doctor Simon Moores, our beloved council's aviation 'expert', wrote this...

The safety record of modern aircraft, certified to operate in the UK, is remarkably good and should hardly give cause for deep concern at Ramsgate... In fact, last month's 'Miracle in the Hudson', should illustrate this quite well, what can be done with a large passenger aircraft when the engines are suddenly shut down after departure, the most safety critical time of the flight.

...a plane plummets into a densely populated suburb in New York state on its approach to Buffalo airport. Hmm, yes Simon. I'll sleep much more soundly in my bed when it's relocated back in London!

Click here to read plane crash story on BBC News website


tony flaig bignews said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Eastcliff Richard said...

You're banned for shouting Tony.

Anonymous said...

Dont go Eastcliff, come and hang out with all the A-listers in Westgate old chum!

Ken Gregory said...

If you are off back to London Richard, sad. We will miss you, but thrive without you.

Anonymous said...

You have got to have been a bit disingenuous including all the Australian Flying Doctor landing strips in your count cobber.

He cannot just leave his building as he has to supervise its conversion to a house of multiple occupancy for benefits claiming tenants.

If you check out Roger Stearn of Old Newton on google ? Sizewell protestor. Faced with all sorts of statistics of occurrence. He took those stats and proffered them to the insurance industry to insure against Sizewell having a nuclear calamity affecting East Anglian agriculture to the extent he would need a payout to start again in New Zealand. Apparently you are far safer living near Sizewell than being on an airliner ...

You would have thought that with those sort of safety stats being touted by Sizewell that insurers would have been falling over themselves to pocket Mr Stearn's premiums eh ? No one would insure him against Sizewell playing up. A clear example of one set of statisticians being asked to put their money up against other statisticians' claims. And they warnt a bettin bor.

Anonymous said...

OO you are such a tease ECR-bet you have no intention of going anywhere!

Anonymous said...

ECR by removing Tony's post people may think he was making a valid point. Let the masses read it and have a smirk.

Anonymous said...

what a prick

Anonymous said...

ecr what a prick is what I meant

Anonymous said...

Tony did sums he made up out of his own head to multiply them by the number of days in a year and ECR got very cross.

I think Tony was seeking to establish that when a plane crashes at one airport the tragedy should be divided by 20,000 (His made up number for landing strips and airports) and further divided by 365 to achieve an annual perspective. Thus if 60 people died in a crash in America that would only represent a threat of 0.0000082 deaths per year from crashes at Manston.

Gottit ? Tony was not satisfied with that answer so divided again by 6 (maybe that was what he threw on his little dice)

Stats a la Tony the Tracklayer.

Eastcliff Richard said...

I would have been happy to leave Tony's point in if he hadn't SHOUTED LIKE A TOTAL GOBSHITE!

If he'd care to resubmit in a calm voice...

As regular readers know, I rarely censor comments. Not even when they call me a prick, 4.35. In fact I was so taken with your submission that you've been elevated to my Latest Fan Mail slot in the sidebar!

Anonymous said...

ECR cannot simply leave. He has had medical advice (possibly from the Great Charlataktari). He has to wean off the cyclohexanone, mercury and rodent pee in the local water supply.

Anonymous said...

you may be interested to know that CGP shares are now at the lofty price of 9.5 pence, down from 10.5 pence.

Thats an decrease of 1,000,000,000% using tony's mathmatics.

Jack Shit said...

ECR, 10 good reasons for not leaving:
1. We all need a hate figure, it makes us feel good about our own miserable lives.
2. Mortgages at 34 year low, property prices at lowest for 2000 years (I made that stat up but I think its right so does Tone). Who will buy?
3. You might come to like the planes, especially if the honeypot accidentially unloads on SMEG before landing.
4. Free double glazing.
5. More noise in London at night, cabs pulling up full of pissheads at 3 a.m. Police, Ambulance, Fire sirens on the way back from the Curry House with the 'Shouts' midnight feast, Yardie shootouts, City Airport, Traffic, Gangsta Rap from next door wiggas and shreiks from insolent bitches as they're slapped up.
6. Bitches in the whore house opposite chucking out deviants who've gone way past the least for the price apparently.
7. Having to sit through countless dinner parties in Islington listening to sob stories of how bankers fucked up big time and home repossessions....yawn.
8. There's no sea in London....just the Thames and a few headless corpses floating down it.
9. 3rd runway at Heathrow. (Apparently Ramsgate has to be demolished anyway, its a long un).
10. Because you will be thinking, 'I wonder what happened next?' London will be boring in comparison.

tony flaig bignews said...

if you'd like a reconstruction of my comment click here fo"eastcliff brings in censorship not sure what ECR policy is toward links in comments

Anonymous said...

I really would not be to concerned at this stage. Having scanned the web, I have stumbled across a few aviation industry employee forums.

The impression I get is that BAWC would prefer to relocate to Gatwick and if not stay at Stansted.

The Manston thing has apparently sprung out of a speculative punt from Infratil. BA have stated in the recent past that Manston is to far away from Heathrow to be viable for their freight services.

We shall see

Anonymous said...

Jack Shit,

Thanks now you have made me homesick!!!

There are some bad sides to London as well you know!

Anonymous said...

Good to see you go, at the same time as you slip from moral high ground.

Eastcliff Richard said...

I never claimed to be on any moral high ground 6:02pm. And surely that's the most dangerous place to be standing when a silly Fokker's falling out of the sky!

DrMoores said...

A completely tasteless remark ECR given the unknown circumstances of the Dash-80 tragedy at Buffalo.

You'll have noted, as have the media, the sudden loss of radio contact with the pilot at the outer marker. We know that the aircraft should have been established on the ILS but that it suddenly descended rapidly with catastrophic results and unlike the controlled emergency landing of the Airbus in the Hudson River.

The Dash 80 is a popular commuter aircraft that you'll see constantly running in and out of London City airport. We have no idea of the circumstances that overtook the crew so very quickly that they had no time to transmit a 'Mayday'. My first thought was sudden clear icing but the Dash-80 is well equipped to handle these conditions and was operating on a regular commuter route. To lose power in both engines simultaneously would be as remarkable as the Boeing 777 crash at Heathrow in January of last year but "Shit happens" however safe the industry.

I'm sure we'll find out the circumstances from the recovered flight recorder very soon but to extrapolate this incident to the debate over Manston is both disingenuous and alarmist

Anonymous said...

I take it that Dr Moores is the councillor. What a typical British politician. Dismiss what does not suit your agenda and include everything that does suit.

No wonder why the British electorate are sick to death of all their so-called elected representives.

Why don't you go and ask Infratil why Prestwick airport with 2.3 million passengers can make do with 320 employees whilst the same company are claiming that 11 cargo planes a week will generate 300 jobs in Thanet. You will use your time up much more productively as one of our "chosen ones" then wasting your time on a two-bob blog!

Linda (via email) said...


I moved away from Broadstairs 15 months ago, having moved there in 1998 with the expectation that Manston was to become a proper airport and breathe new life into the local economy.

My move has taken me to North Essex and (oh, horrors) the house I bought is right under Stansted's flightpath and the aircraft start coming in at the crack of dawn and I wondered whether I would ever sleep past 6.30am. There was no point in going to bed early because they were still flying past 11.30pm.

How quickly you get used to it - now I couldn't even tell you when a plane passes overhead and I haven't a clue what time they stop and start.

A local farmer had to request the planes dip their lights when they went over as they shone into his bedroom window - nothing about the noise! When I moved here and pointed out my concern over the aircraft noise, most people didn't know what I was talking about.

There's lots of people/villages up in arms should Stansted get another runway - so the flight paths might change and we'll all get used to them in a short time just as you will in Ramsgate.

You are not old enough to remember when the USAF were at Manston and the jets screamed in at chimney top height. As a child in my aunt's garden in Ramsgate, conversation stopped while the jet went past then continued as if nothing untoward had occurred and let's face it nothing will be as noisy at they were.

If I were still there, my concern would be over the 'true' number of jobs that will materialise for the locals or have TDC started performing their 'smoke and mirrors' routine as they did with Thanet Earth?



Eastcliff Richard said...

Sorry Dr M if you got the impression I had any taste.

Michael Child said...

Manstons record is quite good although, air ferries operated out of Manston and most of their planes left Manston and arrived on runways at other airports, apart from the Oscar Golf that flew into some trees on the approach at Frankfurt killing everyone onboard, and Kilo Yankee that flew into a mountain killing everyone onboard..

DrMoores said...

Forgive me Michael but perhaps you would like to remind the readers how long ago these aircraft accidents occurred?

Did MLS, GPS, TCAS, ILS and rather more aircraft guidance and safety technology than I can list exist at the time?

I can remember flying on the Comet and the Trident as well but I really don't think their accident record is relevant to Manston in 2009.

While I respect the rights of others to hold their own opinion on the subject of night flights, it is important to note that the great majority of councillors of both parties voted in favour of the 106 amendment yesterday. In my own ward I have yet to have a conversation or receive an email or letter from anyone who does not support the proposal.

Time to move on and look forward, I very much hope, to the opportunities that this decision may bring to Thanet.

Anonymous said...

Dr Moores,

Great non-comment as usual from a British politician. It is always more worrying when all political parties agree, their snouts are all in the trough!

Now are you going to ask Infratil how they can manage with 320 employees for 2.3 million passengers at Prestwick whilst suggesting that 300 employees will be required at Manston for 11 cargo flights a week?????????????????

DrMoores said...

That is, I suspect, a commercial matter for Infratil. In any respect, I'm simply a backbench ward councillor who is delighted to welcome the prospect of any opportunity that might improve the employment chances of people in Thanet from one of its largest and most visible resources.

Anonymous said...

Dr Moores,

On what basis did you vote in favour then?

The environment? I doubt it somehow?

Jobs? You are now enlightened by how few jobs will be produced eh?

or ego? - Politicians crave and need power over the proles.

Personally, I don't have a problem over Manston, at best it will become a regional european charter airport with low-noise small planes. My problem is with; the smoke and mirrors, lack of intellect and lack of research that our councillors take into suchh vital votes for all.

DrMoores said...

Because having read all the available documents, emails and arguments, weblogs included, I decided on a rational basis like my fellow councillors of all parties, that to vote in favour of the amended F106 arrangement, would bring greater benefits to the population of Thanet than opposing it.

It's why we have a democracy. It's not perfect by any means but it's all we have and that, I'm afraid, is how local decisions of this nature are reached.

Anonymous said...

Dr Moores,

I greatly respect you for attempting to respond to my comments and I thank you. We both know that you have avoided the bleeding obvious. I believe that you do realise how few jobs are going to be generated at Manston but I am now going to drop it as you do appear to be a goodun!

Anonymous said...

Perhaps Mr Moore could enlighten us to how many times the ILS system and Radar come to that, have been non operative due to tech problems and the odd lighting strike (very frequently, actually) at KIA aka known as Manston airport. How do the planes land then?

Would Infratil care to comment as they seem backward in coming forward with information.

Anonymous said...

Radar and ILS systems are not a requirement to land. They are just a luxury. Particularly in poor weather.

Anonymous said...

9.44 - Goodun or not at least Dr Moores has a modicum of intellect and yet as he puts it is a backbench councillor. What amazes me is that the front bench have no such capacity and a more intellectually challenged bunch would be hard to find. Why is it that the thick and those that want to line their own pockets are the ones that rise to the top?

Anonymous said...


Are you telling us that if these systems are not available/broken...say when a late night early morning arrival lands/takes off, the talk of not landing/taking off over Ramsgate is just

I have just been given a copy of this 106 and it states very clearly that both parties should implement a 6 month consultation for night i reading this right?

Surely Mr Moores would have picked up on that with the other councilors wouldn't they?

Anonymous said...

I say ECR its getting to be a real bun fight, or is that a 7-4-7 fight over on Dave Greens blog.


Anonymous said...

Is it a coincidence that Infratil announced job losses at Prestwick the day after the council decision?

Was their urgency to get a decision through by the council on Thursday due to them not wanting anybody to rock the boat regarding all those job losses at one of their other airports?

I am sure there is nothing in it and that is far to conspirital.

Anonymous said...

I think the council have been sold a pup by Infratil. The only hope is that Infratil have been sold a pup by BA World Cargo!

Michael Child said...

Sorry Simon I assumed every one knew both accidents were in February 1967 DC-4s I believe, I seem to remember that one of the more unusual things about them was the heating system was inclined to pump exhaust gasses into the fuselage, which may have been the cause of the accidents.

Manston main runway has no interceptor the thought that BA would operate under those conditions with the new polluter pays legislation is just laughable, anyway Manston has been invited to tender as have Heathrow and Gatwick, they ask for tenders every three years when the airport contract at Stansted is due for renewal but have stuck with Stansted so far.

If you think what the relocation costs would be for BA as well Manston doesn’t stand any real chance, I am afraid BA are using TDCs desire for jobs at any cost regardless of environmental costs, as a bargaining pawn, you could say word is getting out. I see no other reason that Manston was included in the tendering for the first time this year as geographically it’s in the wrong place. BA want a transport hub and unlike some others who appear to be unaware of the invention of the wheel, probably know about it.

West Cliff GB said...

Funny how Simon Moores manages to engage with us now the vote has happened. He still won't answer any questions though, will he?

Anonymous said...

When these phantom-jobs fail to materialise, the councillors will be reminded, ad infinitum, that they were prepared to, and did, sell out the voters of Ramsgate. I wouldn't fancy being the poor saps that have to do the door-to-door canvassing come election time.