Tuesday, May 19, 2009

Night Flight Blight Fight Tonight

I'll be popping along to the Airport Working Party meeting at 7pm tonight, over at Chas 'n' Dave International. Needless to say I'll be the one in the full druid outfit.

The crucial point on this evening's agenda is night flying. Following the ludicrous shenanigans over British Airways World Cargo's 'will they? won't they? move from Stansted to Manston, when our supine council bent over forwards to accommodate Infratil's nightmare/wet dream of freight 747s landing and taking off during the small wee hours, the topic is again up for discussion. Now, instead of just convening a quick meeting at the drop of a hat to OK limited night flights (try getting them to do that if you wanted planning permission to, say, open a fine dining restaurant in a listed building), our beloved council wants to hand the joystick jockies a willy-nilly permit to fly all through the night whenever they feel like it.

That nice Kiwi (another Thanet job for Thanet people!) Matt Clarke, who runs Chas 'n' Dave International, has already made a presentation to the Cecil Square duffers to the effect that the airport is losing money hand over fist, along with an unveiled threat that, 'without an increase in traffic', the airport will close and the 85 direct jobs created over the past ten years will go, and please sir can we have crappy old Jumbos spewing out noise and fumes at 4am? Now that position is being endorsed by the council's Head of Regeneration and Generally Buggering Things Up, Brian White.

Word on the street is that members of Her Majesty's Press will be attending tonight's bunfight, and that some very irate members of Her Majesty's Public will also be there. Should be a hoot!

Chas 'n' Dave International's plea for unrestricted night flights
Up shit creek in a barbed wire KIACC without a paddle

84 comments:

David Bryant said...

Can't be as bad as the late 70s when the USAF used to practice and RAF sent sorties through Manston twice an hour. I lived in Pegwell then...

I am sure the Thanetion (and I love that enunciation of that word sounds like Pheonetian and the platitudes are much the same - inveterate, internalised, uninsightful infighting) will attack any business initiative that is undertaken - large or small.

Anonymous said...

It was cold last night but not as cold as the ice-age.

tony flaig bignews said...

Can't see the problem, were all told how Manston hasn't got a future from East Kent Enviro-bullies.

So where is the beef?

Anonymous said...

It's about building 'value' into an asset that may be sold off at some stage surely?????

Anonymous said...

DB - sorties in the 70s are ancient history. Get over the nostalgia mate, this is meant to be a commercial airport now. It's had ten years and is still a flop. We need a plan B.

TF - I'll be round your house every hour tonight and every night from midnight to 6am with a PA system playing back the noise of a 747 coming in to land or taking off. Let's see how you like it. Selfish tosser.

Anonymous said...

Enviro-Bully =

Deafening planes overhead day and night

Richard Card said...

Tony

Does this mean you won't be joining the

The Enviro Druids for a Jazz Dance around the Manston enviro protection conveyance

Anonymous said...

losing money hand over fist, that's great news lets hope it shuts up soon and then we can get on with making the area a decent place to live, although we again have to write off all the wasted money the council have chipped in.

The David Bryant jibe is piss poor, Planet Earth great business well concieved ,well executed, and actually providing jobs ,fantastic.

The airport is a useless white elephant, providing very few jobs causing a lot of negative environmetal effects and causing to depress the housing market in Ramsgate. Would you relocate to live under a flight path ?.

Richard Card said...

It could be (excuse pun) that housing prices are undermined by the aquifer issues.

Don't you just love Market Forces Thanet tories ?

Marie-Antoinette said...

The council doesn't want us DFL's or down from anywhere's to invest here - it's obvious.

The local inbreds ('I fink noise at night is graaaayt') represent a docile electorate that wouldn't know a sustainable business from a dole-cheque if it knocked a 4-pack of Stella from their hands

Expect the council to roll-over so that it can spend the next decade ruling over a progressively more state and council-reliant peasantry.

You deserve eachother.

Anonymous said...

Hold the Front Page.

A Sunday Broadsheet is to have a representative there tonight.

Oooooh, it'll be like moving an old housebrick in the garden. Doubles and trebles of wriggling all round!

ilovemanston said...

I wouldn't relocate under the flight path i would do my research before buying a house under a flight path hyou mug!!

Stop Manston Expansion Group said...

"Measures need to be taken to reduce noise levels from aircraft, in particular during night-time, in order to protect the health of people living near airports "


Dr Lars Jarup
Imperial College London

ilovemanston said...

Why don't you relocate away from the flight path, i know why,you sad old gits with nothing to occupy your retirement with would then have nothing to moan about!

Anonymous said...

Er, I don't mean to burst your bubble there, ilovebranston, but your the one who's 900 years old.

It's the younger generation who are more in tune with the environment, so get back in your Robin Reliant and p*ss off.

Marie-Antoinette said...

So 'I love Manston'

You admit that the airport will wreck Ramsgate.

Have you told your pals at TDC to expect tax-revenues to go down as Ramsgate is abandoned by those of us wealthy and young enough to relocate our school-age children?

ilovemanston said...

hit a nerve did i victor!! don't worry must be pension day tomorrow!

ilovemanston said...

Ramsgates already wrecked it has been for a long time

Anonymous said...

Funny how the 'Pro-Airport' posts are always so...facile.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know the poor sap who has to 'sell' KIA to potential carriers? I really feel for them.

Is that the worst sales job in Kent?

Imagine the sales meetings.

West Cliff GB said...

It's like the film 'Oliver'. I'd suggest a re-write for 2009 though.


'Please Sir, can I have some more extensions for night-time flying?'

'No, sod off and finish filling your day-time slots first'

If only.

Sandy could play the role so well.

ilovepunctuation said...

Funny? You would expect them to be facile, surely!

ilovejetfumes said...

Bring it on! My knuckle-dragging mates and I can't wait to spend our benefits on cheap flights to Jersey!

Anonymous said...

No, we expect you probably can't...

Peter Checksfield said...

Oh dear.

Anonymous said...

there are still LOADS of seats left on this Saturdays Flybe flights to Jersey.

In comparison, 2 from 5 flights from Gatwick are full, and the remainder have only a handful of seats left.

Anonymous said...

With the boring facts about flying in the days of yore and details about blogging security David Bryant seems alarmingly like "Dr" Simon Moore please dear god surely there cannot be two of them ? .

Anonymous said...

is that david bryant that can't see that he needs to sort the wheat from the chavs!

tony flaig bignews said...

Lets hope TDC help as much as is reasonable, some of us are heartily sick of local luddites, Johnny come lately s, etc.

Anonymous said...

And we're mightily sick of fossil fuel burning planet destroying dinosaurs like you Tony. Whose only thought is for their own selfish 'I'm all right Jack' existence and cheap holidays to Majorca.

Until the aviation industry comes up with the equivalent of the hybrid car which, like the hybrid car would be silent in towns, it hasn't got a future. No doubt some bright spark is already working on it. Good luck to him or her.

Anonymous said...

i couldn't believe the cost of the Flybe flights from Manston to Jersey. Why is it cheaper to fly from other, more northernly airports? Does Flybe think just because this is the South everyone is loaded?

Anonymous said...

I have lived in Thanet all my life , and if Tony Flaig now represents the quality of the local gene pool then bring on as many newcomers as possible . It is bitter people like him that depress me, and the local economy .
I think the subtext or even text of his arguement, is not about the airport but people daring to come to Thanet with fresh ideas who are eloquent and bright, and horror of horrors dare to own a house !

I say please come as soon as possible these people make a choice to live here unlike Tony who has never climbed out of the rut he finds himself in .

Anonymous said...

"Why is it cheaper to fly from other, more northernly airports? Does Flybe think just because this is the South everyone is loaded?"

Because locals are prepared to pay a little more to fly from their local airport - fact !!

Anonymous said...

"there are still LOADS of seats left on this Saturdays Flybe flights to Jersey. "

Really?? well the first 2 flights arrived and departed just a smidgen under full capacity.
Define LOADS - I dare you ?
Whats the seating capacity on a Dash 8 q400 - do you even know what one looks like?

Anonymous said...

60% of seats full makes the flight economically viable..they easily match that...100% full will be great but not necessary.

ascu75 aka Don said...

anon 7.10 are you in favour of no air flights cars banned and sail boats only? the world in in the midst of a downturn in all sectors including air travel.I lived under the flight path 25 years ago and it was a slight irritation not a full on problem. there are far worse issues in Thanet than the airport

Anonymous said...

This is typical of the "blowing things out of all proportion" approach used by pro-airport supporters when they can't win the argument by a process of rational debate. There may be some people who think there shouldn't be an airport at Manston. That's fine. They're entitled to their opinion. There are a lot of others who think there should be an airport, but that there should be appropriate restrictions to limit noise and pollution, just like any other business.

Don and his cronies (and these cronies unquestionably include Councillors....I know because I've heard them) feel obliged to portray everything in black and white terms: "You're either for the airport or against it."

No Don, we're not. We are in favour of a properly regulated and controlled airport. This is a perfectly reasonable and sensible viewpoint. You and your extremist chums have to explain why you believe there should be no regulation. Try to avoid reference to the 1950's and thundering American bombers. It isn't relevant and it makes you sound like an appalling old dinosaur.

ilovemanston said...

so you agree manston should be regulated the same as other uk airports enabling it to compete with with them?

Anonymous said...

Manston has had an airport since 1916,if you are older than 94 you can moan,if you are younger than that shut up or ship out.
you bought a house near an airport,expect planes or will you lot start moaning that the sea is too close and could the council move it,tossers!!!!!!!!!!!!

ilovemanston said...

well said.

Anonymous said...

The tone of the argument, or( brainless interjections from I love Manston )is less about The airport but now more about Locals versus new people to the area.

There is no reasonable point being put forward by the pro-airport group , "only who the fuck are you to say my water should not be polluted ? that I should not be woken up in the small hours by a jet full of Beans from Zambia, piss off back to whereever you came from" .

Take out the ecological arguments, the noise, the jobs whatever . The airport is in the wrong place to be of any use to anyone other than the crappy outfits that use it at the moment. If it was not then It would be being exploited by all and sundryby now . It is too far from London and is surrounded by sea knocking out any hub status it might have .For years people have said ,"But what about Manston"? trooped up and said forget it for the previously stated reasons.

I have heard that Infratil were hoping that the night flights would get turned down to give them an exit excuse.
Due to our supine council not playing ball, they now hope to sell it on with the approvals in place.

There projections which most pro or anti's probably have not read are laughable and not based on anything other than their own wish list.

The airports location is perfect for bombing France and bugger all else

ilovemanston said...

Surely that is infratils conern, if they wish to throw money at it what business is it of yours? you just said it all, your main gripe is being woken up in the small hours and your water tasting of jet1 (apparently! He has a home testing kit). MOVE!!!!

Anonymous said...

8.16pm. Define smidgen.

ilovemanston said...

went out with 48 capacity is 50.

Stop the loonies said...

Thanks ILM - now define loads as previously stated...anon

Stop the loonies said...

"No Don, we're not. We are in favour of a properly regulated and controlled airport."
Excellent, so are we - case closed close the blogs, we are done here.

ilovemanston said...

did you go to that meeting stl?

Stop the loonies said...

had to wait at the terminal entrance to keep the loonies out, but i fear a few got past me.

Stop the loonies said...

happy to see a few of them decided to stay at home at post on here instead ;-)

ilovemanston said...

Any idea how it went?

Stop the loonies said...

i'll give you a call in the morning

ilovemanston said...

roger

Stop the loonies said...

smeggers has a one sided view on his blog if you want to read that tosh, but best to wait for the official minutes to get a true reflection of how the meeting went.

Lucy Mail said...

Looks like a job for Hemor-rite!

Anonymous said...

ILM's avatar is a bit of a contradiction innit?

Stop Manston Expansion Group said...

well stl if you want to write your own view, feel free.

Just to balance things up, i failed to mention that the meeting was called by the council on behalf of an unsustainable, money losing business that has threatened to leave if current night time flying restrictions aren't lifted.

Hope that now gives everyone a fairer reflection of the meeting.

Anonymous said...

I think the STL avatar is about the only thing they have got right.

Over weight, alcoholic ,moron, who works for a company who shows complete disregard for the safety of the general public.

"He" is probably even bright yellow as he would not get treatment for a bout of jaundice because the treatment was not invented in Thanet, but by some Johnny come lately from up Lunnen way.

Stop the loonies said...

HEY !
I grew up yellow - not my fault i drank the water from a well near Thor Chemicals !!

Stop the loonies said...

smeggers
you keep reporting the b*llsh8t and i'll stick to the facts - thats how it's always worked in the past.

Anonymous said...

Richard,
you seem to have gone very quiet during the recent handbagfest on the blog.

Could it be that you are ILM , STL ,and even the Big Twat Margate, and are just having fun winding everyone up a bit

Eastcliff Richard said...

Nah. I prefer to just light the blue touch paper and then stand well back!

Jeremy said...

I think you'll find that there are 75 seats in a

http://www.flybe.com/images/flybe400.jpg

Week 1 1 pax arrived 46 departed
Week 2 42 pax arrived 42 departed

so there is spare capacity. What beautiful and quiet aircraft these are!

Matt Clarke's presentation to the Council merely asked for an equal playing field with regard to base opening hours - the same as Gatwick and Stansted. His argument was absolutely correct - restrictions in the evening stop day-time flights, because airlines will not risk the financial penalties. At present fines double up per individual aircraft in any 12 month period - £1,000, £2,000, £4,000 etc. This hits small airlines even more. No business wants to pay overtime, but in transport it is sometimes necessary, to get things ready for the next day.

Stop Manston Expansion Group said...

NZ$ 191,000,000 loss.

Bullsh1t or fact?

Anonymous said...

a glider is a quiet aircraft. Anything with an engine isn't.

Anonymous said...

Didn't one of the APW thank the KIACC for their input as they had brought some facts up that the APW had not thought of...and yes other airports do put in place draconian measures to keep the riff raff out, KIA does not? What was KIACC on about regrading Permits to land...anyone know?

Anonymous said...

How I agree with the post 9.46 Anonymous. Unless you were here in 1916 before the airport was built, you have only yourselves to blame. You moved near it, it hasn't altered!! Even if when you bought your property it was running as a very minor aiport, it was still there and you should have taken it into consideration that expansion could happen one day. So I would say, STOP WHINGEING. Find something worthwhile to complain about.

Anonymous said...

permit to land = plane/operator that is not sanctioned to land by the CAA, as it's too noisy, potentially dangerous.

ie, a carrier from Africa flying ancient planes.

That perfecty describes most of the users of manston.

Stop the loonies said...

...most of the users of Manston:
Cargolux - 747 400
Egypt Air - Airbus A300 600F
MK Airlines - 747 200
Netjets - LJ45
Atlas Air - 747 400
Pfizer - Gulfstream 5
Flybe - Dash 8 Q400

YEP....right load of dodgy characters there.
By the way if havne't got a clue what those aircraft are, feel free to punch the google search button.
Modern aircraft flown by proffesional pilots.

Anonymous said...

Infratil knew there was a town here when they bought the airport. They also knew that there was a legal aghreement preventing night flights. The town and the legal agreement were both here before Infratil moved in. If Infratil don't like it they should b*gg*r off back to NZ and take their obnoxious supporters with them.

Anonymous said...

STL 6.32

Your list proves what I said Dodgy characters Cargolux invovrd in Fraud and paying money back, MK knackered planes poor safety record The Pfizer Gulfstream is only there once in a blue moon .

Your knowledge betrays that you work at the airport, so all this good for the area bollocks smacks of self preservation to me

Anonymous said...

mk -safety record under scrutiny

cargolux - fined over $100,000,000 for dodgy price fixing practices

The others - margins are dissappearing to nothing as the oil price shoots up

I'm sure flying beans in from africa will continue to be a rip roaring success for the rest of 2009 - not

Anonymous said...

Hope the "proffesional" [sic]pilots can spell better than you. Otherwise there's likely to be a communication problem.

Anonymous said...

Going by the "you knew there was an airport" argument, presumably none of you planeosuaruses will have any objections when an incinerator or nuclear power plant is built at Pegwell?

Anonymous said...

KIA 0

RAMSGATE 4

Anonymous said...

Why wouldn't we object to a nuclear power plant at Pegwell? There's never been one there before. Or do you somehow think that a nuclear power plant is the same as a coal/oil-fired power station. It must make life so very easy when you failed to take advantage of the education which was offered to you.

Anonymous said...

Come on guys (and gals) Let's stick to the issue and see past the hype and nonsense. Manston has attracted no business of any note in the last ten years. It continues to lose spectacular amounts of money. It isn't a question of whether Infratil will close it down, only when.

The scuffle over night flights is just a ruse designed to get Infratil off the hook when they fnally throw in the towel. They will say that they have to close it because it can't be economically viable without unrestricted night-flights. They've already threatened as much. They will attempt to divert blame onto the environmental lobby.

Those with any sense will understand that Infratil bought an airport, complete with restrictions on night-flying. If it wasn't going to be economically viable under those conditions they shouldn't have bought it. Buyer beware, due diligence and all that. There were other bidders for the site.

I say get the champagne on ice ready for closure day. The airport albatross has blocked regeneration of the Isle for far too long. Good riddance to it and those who supported it.

Stop the loonies said...

Anon. 8.55.
My knowledge betrays the facts that i happen to know a lot about the Airport i am supporting, shame some of the dim witters on here don't back their stories with facts, but rather spew the constant doom and gloom shite.
I am in fact a local business owner, and resident.

Anonymous said...

Sandy! Nice of you to drop in!

Stop Manston Expansion Group said...

its not sandy, he didn't drop the c-bomb in the conversation

Anonymous said...

Or the F****** T***** bomb.

Anonymous said...

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...Stop the loonies is a local business owner....rag n' bone, rag n' bone!!

Stop the loonies said...

where there's muck there's brass !!

Anonymous said...

Oh. So you are suddenly interested in facts! That's a first. OK try this:
Passenger numbers fell 11.3pc across BAA's seven airports in the UK from a year earlier, to 10.6m people. Gatwick, one of the airports the Competition Commission is forcing BAA to sell, was the worst hit, seeing a 17.7 pc drop in traffic.

At Heathrow, the busiest UK airport, passenger numbers were 7.5pc lower. Airports with a higher proportion of holiday passengers were harder hit - at Stansted, traffic declined by 15.9pc and Glasgow was down by 13pc.

Daily Telegraph. 15th April 2009.

Anonymous said...

It is a fact that Manston is losing millions every year and has been doing so for the last ten years. It is a going concern.....going bust.