Monday, July 26, 2010

Airport Consultation Takes Off Again

Now that blighting night flights are back on the agenda at Manston, Kent's Chas 'n' Dave Margate Tracey Emin International RAF Airport, it seems the Consultative Committee, which liaises between residents, the council and owners Infartil, is set to meet again.

Here's what they'll be gassing on about in the airport terminal lounge at 3.15pm tomorrow:


1. Chairman's welcome & opening remarks

2. Minutes of last meeting

3. Introduction of our new secretary, Heidi Golden

4. Introduction of the new Airport CEO, Charles Buchanan

5. Complaints/feedback - at all stages (Charles Buchanan, Brian White)

6. The linked issue of the website (Charles B)

7. The planning application for the radar (Charles B)

8. Consultation on TMZ: transponders (Peter Thompson, Senior ATCO, Charles B)

9. Situation report on the Consultation on Night Noise (Brian W, Charles B)

10. The usual report on environmental issues from TDC (Brian W, another)

11. The usual report from the Airport management (Charles B)

12. Any other business, notified in advance to the Chairman or Secretary

It almost looks like a fresh start, what with a new boss at the helm of the airport (Charles 'Smug' Buchanan) and a new secretary at the helm of the committee (Heidi 'I Haven't Thought Of A Nickname For Her Yet' Golden).

Of course, the one constant is TDC's Director of Regeneration, Brian 'Eeh, Wouldn't An Airport The Size Of Stansted Be Chuffin' Lovely' White!


Anonymous said...

is this open to the public, or are they holding it during working hours during the first week of school holidays on a Tuesday without any advertising just to make it look as though people are not interested?

puffinman said...

People are interested & I expect from what i've read from the pro lobby that write on this blog, there will be hordes of people supporting this lost cause.

Anonymous said...

Not sure if it is an open meeting. Can people go along and watch?

Bluenote said...

Perhaps the good thing about Manston is that it provides a place for the Red Arrows to base up for their various south coast displays thus providing the plane spotters of Thanet with a close up and some impromptu displays over the airfield.

Funnily enough, scores of people seem to gather roadside whenever the Reds are visiting, even on working days and during school holidays. But then, perhaps those good folk don't object to the airfield and would rather watch planes than go to meetings.

Can't please all the folk all the time, I guess.

Anonymous said...

Nobody is arguing against the Red Arrows. It is night flights that have got people's backs up.

Trying to fudge the argument yet again Bluenote?

Bluenote said...

Not really but just responding to the first post by pointing out that plenty of people seem to be able to find time during the day when it suits them. Furthermore, I thought the meeting, which is the subject under discussion, covered a wide agenda, not just night flights. It is thou who seeks to narrow it down.

As to nobody objecting to the Red Arrows, surely the anti-airport group must realise no airport means no Red Arrows. Taking the thinking a bit further, if the RAF no longer had aircraft access to Manston how long would the MOD Fire School survive. There are already those who want to merge it with the civil airports fire training establishment.

Food for thought rather than fudging the issue I would suggest.

Anonymous said...

More sophistry Bluenote.

No night flights = no airport = no Red Arrows = no fire brigade.

That's what we call reductio ad absurdum. We're not all morons on this island, you know.

Bluenote said...

That was not what I said I you know it. All I ask is you look at the bigger picture sometimes if your cells can cope with that sort of thought span.

Likewise I would never suggest all my fellow Thanetians are morons but there are a few!

Anonymous said...

bluenote - MOD are just like any other air operator at Manston - they pay as you go.

Similar with the fire training school and the museum - just an historical link.

The MOD fire training school is not dependant on the airport existing there - the previous chief exec said so.

I doubt whether the arrows would cease to visit if the airport was not here - we'd still get the odd fly-by past for the museum. The mini-displays we get are for their benefit, not for the private airport.

Personally, I can live without the 2, 3 red arrows "displays" each year over my house if it means I don't get 45 year old ghana registered DC8 lumping bananas overhead at 3am potentially every day.

Anonymous said...

Lets have loads of night flights, that way the single brain cell creatures who protest will be so tired they will not be able to procreate,,, that way no more protests after one generation. (to those who protest procreate means to have sex)

Anonymous said...

OK Bluenote let's look at the bigger picture, shall we? One civil operator has already gone bust, and Infratil lose something like £4m a year currently. Meanwhile we have a useless, loss-making asset dumped in the middle of the island, which is threatening to blight the regeneration of Ramsgate and Herne Bay by implementing night flights. Fewer than 100 jobs have been created in the decade or so since the RAF left, most of which have gone to outsiders. A very far cry from the 10,000 that were promised.

Despite plans to install new radar, we are being told that this will be because of the wind farms, not to help aircraft avoid the towns. The airport consistently refuses to engage with the concerns of Ramsgate and Herne Bay residents and continues to shout about jobs and progress like the rest of the aviation industry, which hubristically believes it is above everyone else and can therefore do what the feck it likes.

Lastly, there are only a few flights a day from Manston at the moment (and personally I'd be happy to tolerate a few more if they are to decent destinations), so they really don't need carte blanche to fly all through the night as well.

puffinman said...

8-45...That could be said about the single brain celled supporters as well!!
Also here's a bit of education for you, as you don't seem to understand English.

pro·cre·ate (prkr-t)
v. pro·cre·at·ed, pro·cre·at·ing, pro·cre·ates
1. To beget and conceive (offspring).
2. To produce or create; originate.
To beget and conceive offspring; reproduce.

Bluenote said...

The Red Arrows can only use the facilities at Manston, including the accommodation, refuelling and maintenance for their various south coast air shows so long as there is an operating airfield there.

The protest Group is against the airfield. Not just night flights. The meeting is about the airport development. Not just night flights.

Whilst MOD might pay for the facilities at least they are there to be used. Often flights come and go in connection with the MOD establishment. If the airport goes that facility to MOD would go with it.

That reduces the convenience to the Fire School which is likely to be under scrutiny in the Defence Review anyway. There are many people, including some who work there, who are surprised it has lasted so long after the RAF withdrawal.

Things interlink and have a certain mutual dependency. Clear enough for you, 8:21 PM.

Anonymous said...

"The protest group is against the airfield. Not just night flights."

More glib muddying of the waters from Bluenote. If you look at the online petition, many of the people who have signed are pro the airport, but against night flights.

It's a shame that those who are arguing for night flights like Bluenote can't get their facts straight. It's so easy to shoot them down (as we will the night flights... metaphorically speaking, of course!)

Anonymous said...

9:25PM, the only person you are shooting down is yourself. As Bluenote has pointed out this Consultation Meeting is not just about night flights.

I have also carefully read through Bluenote's comments and he does not say he supports night flights.

Anonymous said...

So let's ask him to make it clear for us bumpkins.

Are you against or for night flights Bluenote?

Bluenote said...

Sorry, slipped off there for a bit for some tea, but thanks 9:32PM. Nice to get some support for a change.

What do I support? Well, in the absence of anything better proposed for the site, I feel an airport could benefit Thanet but am disappointed it has been so slow to develop. Night flights, not really other than emergency diversion situations, though I suppose up until about 10pm would be OK. Not frightfully keen on things thundering over after that.

Anonymous said...

It is wording that has always been the problem in this issue. The airfield wants to opportunity to take 'after hours' flights (I hate the phrase night flights),there has been no intention of scheduling these flights.

Anonymous said...

anon again!
Night flight's - NO.
However, during daylight hour's, why not use Manston as a proper Airport. There could be an 'emergency stipulation', whereby only plane having to do an emergency landing after dark. This rule should not be abused.
The Reds Arrows rank amongst the best flyers in the World - they can land anytime ;)

Anonymous said...

Generally airports do not allow night flights, so why should manston be any different. TDC does not collect all the charges that it should over the current level of night flights. If infratil can only make the airport work at the expense of the local residents sleep they should go to whence they came.
The only reason they want a new radar is because they conned the wind farm out of the cost based on spurious and doubtful data, if they don't get it in this year they won't get it at all.
TDc obviously want the night flights so they can sneak of to china in the middle of the night to get their feet massaged, or on the otherhand allow china gateway inc. to fly loads of stuff in during the hours of darkness.

8.21pm said...

Bluenote, here I don't think that the demise of manston would mean no more red arrows on the south coast. Someone else posted on here that the battle of Britain flight ( includes a Lancaster) would never be able to make it here, forgetting they used to hop over to Getmany and back 70 years ago.

Time passes by and historical dependencies diminish. The mod fire school has outlasted the RAF by a considerable time.

There are plenty of airports around for the mod to use - if it was that important to them they never would have let it go.

There are groups against night flights and against expansion of the airport to the stansted size behemoth infratil/tdc want. Personally, as a local airport with the same opening hours as City Airport, I'd be happy. But the owners would not. The airport would still lose money.

Perhaps a rethink by the powers that be on a long-term sustainable venture that creates local wealth rather than flying in produce that can be grown here, or holiday makers out of the area (there has never been a sniff from kcc/tdc about using manston to attract tourists in, only destinations)

I'm glad you support such an early closing. It shows you are perfectly sensible, although with an argumentative slant.

Anonymous said...


Manston can take 747's throughout the night right now without any fear of penalty.

Why would they want to request a limit on night flights which must surely be a more restrictive set of rules?

Bluenote said...

Never suggested that the closure of Manston would mean no more Red Arrows, simply that we would see a lot less of them in that event. If they had to use RAF Odiham or some other airfield instead they would only be here for the Margate Big Event. At the moment we see them not just for that but when they are doing the Eastbourne and Folkestone shows as well. Not the main consideration but just one factor.

Agree with 8:12 AM that the Fire School has outlasted the RAF by quite some time, especially as it was general considered to have about a six year life expectancy when RAF Manston closed. Still think it will be a miracle if it survives the Defence Review but who knows. More sacred cows have been slaughtered in the cause of political expediency as with the RM School of Music in Deal and Connaught Barracks in Dover.

Thanks also to 8:12 for an acceptance of me having some sense though not sure about the argumentative slant. I think it is more a desire to open up debate rather than confine to single issues which are invariably dependent on other factors.

Anyway, you have a good day.

Anonymous said...

I thought this was ECR's blog, not a forum for Bluenote to hold court with his minority views. I'd suggest Bluenote gets his own web-site. Then he can see how few people are really interested in what he has to say.

Anonymous said...

1:44PM I enjoy Bluenote's contribution and, at least, we know when it is him. Wouldn't be much of site, as I am sure ECR knows, if we all agreed with each other.

Bluenote said...

1:44 PM, you are quite right that this is ECR's blog and it is, therefore, up to him, not you, to decided who can comment. If he asked me to go I would respect his wishes.

As to starting my own blog well I have neither the computer skills nor the desire to compete with experts like ECR. Why don't you give it a go?

Anonymous said...

The person on here who does not like Bluenote seems to have confused himself. One minute he is calling him a Tory and now that he spouts minority views. Tory views are hardly minority in Thanet so you cannot have it both ways.

Anonymous said...

Next open meeting for the KIACC is the 10th September.

I suspect they will have to change back to the MACC again?

I hear that the meeting had some good debate and that certain legal obligations and findings were discussed by some local focus group.

I have also been informed that the committee did underline that they support the airport with controls.

Evidently some ex Cpt said it would make his job easier if the committee wanted the airport closed (the committee could not do this anyway)or he could get 1.5 million West Kent electorate to vote on the matter?

I can see a lively public meeting coming up.


Lucy Mail said...

Another thread that's become an argument with Bluenote.

>>thanks 9:32PM. Nice to get some support for a change<<

And I'll bet you've never considered, even for a second, why that is!

Can't you find something useful to do darling?

Bluenote said...

Et tu, Lucy, and there's me thinking we were friends.

Anyway, you have a nice day, sweetie, and go easy on the juice.

Anonymous said...

"Tory views are hardly minority in Thanet so you cannot have it both ways."

Oh, I think the views of a certain wing of the Tory party would be quite unpalatable to the vast majority of people living here.

Has anyone else noticed how Bluenote's postings always seem to get people's backs up. Perhaps it isn't so much that he expresses a personal opinion, but that he keeps coming back to argue the toss when somebody else expresses a different view. This is why I thin Bluenote is a politician. He can't listen to what other people have to say without trying to tell them that they are wrong.

Anonymous said...

Surely the whole point about debate is to invite a response. The difference between Bluenote and many other commentators is he/she uses a title so we know it is from the one source. The Anonymous commentator can respond without identification.

Again we have a conflict of suggestions here. If Bluenote's views are unlikely to be supported even by Tories then it is most unlikely he would attract the necessary support to be elected as a politician. Again, my anonymous friend, you cannot have it both ways.

Another interesting point which you can easily check out. When Bluenote contributes we tend to have a lengthy and lively debate but when it he does not it dies quickly. As an ardent follower I know which I prefer.

Richard Eastcliff said...

'If he asked me to go I would respect his wishes.'

Well, that's a bit disingenuous, isn't it Bluenote? Both you and I know you were previously posting comments as 'The Rock'. I banned you, you came back under a different nom de plume!

Still, I've overlooked that minor detail as your contributions are generally interesting and couched in moderate language, even though I disagree with much of what you say.

I have no problem with alternative views on this blog. After all, democratic debate is one of the few freedoms we still enjoy in this country. Well, it was the last time I looked.

And at the end of the day, if I really don't like what somebody's saying, or if they're dominating proceedings disproportionately, I can always delete their comments. 'Cos unlike the country at large, this blog is effectively a dictatorship!

Oh dear. I seem to have come over all hypocritical and contradictory now.

Bluenote said...

Touché, my knowledgeable friend, and I concede to your all seeing wisdom. Also enjoyed the democratic dictatorship bit.

Anonymous said...


We have had an elected dictatorship for decades...nationally and locally - why you ask? If a person is elected with under 50% of the votes how can they have a real mandate to lord it over us?

Bluenote said...

12:05 PM, whereas I would agree with you it is the system. The present Coalition enjoy more than 50% of the vote, if not the electorate, between them but is that what you want? For true democracy we would need proportionate representation and a compulsory voting system but would that result in good governance or shady deals? Then again, is compulsory voting in itself democratic? Far removed from the airport but you posed the question.

Anonymous said...

12:05's comment is incorrect. In UK you retain the right to change your governments every five years. If you had lived under a real dictatorship, as I have, where elections are a total farce or offer just one candidate, you would know the difference.

Anonymous said...


Getting back on the airport track.

The KCC Mother-ship away team have reported back to the Mother-ship.

Fleet Commander C to Cpt M, can I have your away team report. Cpt M to Fleet Commander C, Its an Airport sir, but not as we know it"

Anonymous said...

Oh Dear, oh dear, oh dear...Cling-ons, on the Starboard bow? Is that the cut and thrust of it Anon?

Think about it laterally people!!

Anonymous said...

If we are going all Trekky, shouldn't we think logically as well as laterally. Live long and prosper!

Anonymous said...

I think ECR has erred in allowing the Rock to continue posting both as Bluenote and as an anonymous contributor. This parasite is destroying all threads on the blog and I think he's doing it deliberately.

I think Councillors are worried. They got control of the local press and pretty much dictate what is and isn't published there. Suddenly they realized that online blogs were rising in popularity and that ECR was getting significant interest by posting the stuff that the Council's poodles in the local press wouldn't touch.

The answer? Strategy One was to threaten ECR with legal action. That didn't work. You can't sue for libel if it's true and, most of the time it's pretty hard to sue for libel even if it isn't. So, they went to Strategy Two; to infiltrate the blog and make it unreadable. If this didn't work they'd have to resort to Strategy Three; buying off the proprietor.

You have missed a trick ECR. If you eliminate Bluenote the brown envelopes will come.

Anonymous said...

The anonymous comment at 2:07 PM misses a point. If what is suggested were true all the infiltrators need do is keep changing input locations making it impossible for the blog controller to identify the source. Better the devil you know and all that.

Richard Eastcliff said...

I'm all for brarn envelopes 2:07pm! After all, I've lived the Thanet dream for five years now and have become accustomed to its strange ways.

I know what you mean about Bluenote/The Rock, and his appearance not long after TDC's chief executive moaned to his senior managers about being unable to control the Thanet blogs seems more than a little coincidental.

Still, at least he/she gives us all something else to complain about, eh?

Anonymous said...


Cpt Clingon

Anonymous said...

Anytime you alien freakshow. Capt (correct abbreviation please note) Kirk

Anonymous said...

"...making it impossible for the blog controller to identify the source."

Except that Bluenote/Rock/Tory-boy always sounds like a complete tw*t. I'd know him anywhere.

Anonymous said...

Your literary debating skills know no bounds. Recourse to insulting names shows the argument is lost. Enjoy your tea.

Anonymous said...

A little Dicky bird tells me that new boy Buchanan wasn't happy following this meeting. Ever been sold a lemon?

Anonymous said...

yes, my house in Ramsgate. The house itself is lovely, the surroundings (front, back, to the sides and above) less lovely.