Wednesday, April 02, 2014

Unhappy Landings

In Memoriam 
RAF London Kent Manston
Margate Tracey Emin
Chas 'n' Dave Maggie Thatcher
Schipol Skyport Poundland
International Airport

So farewell
Then, RAF London
Kent Manston
Margate Tracey Emin
Chas 'n' Dave
Maggie Thatcher
Schipol Skyport
Poundland
International Airport.

You had the
Longest runway
In Britain
According to
Roger Gale MP.

And planes flew
'Straight out to sea'
According to
Paul Carter
Leader of
Kent County Council.

None of which
Was true.

You were supposed
To create
'10,000 jobs'.
That wasn't true either.

Now you have gone
To that great
Airport in the sky.

E. C. Richard (29)

Click here to read more about airport consortium pulling out on KM website.

77 comments:

Anonymous said...

.. another jigsaw piece fits in ... all part of the great master plan..

I do hope my TAG Pet Rescue bet is still on?

Richard Eastcliff said...

Of course! Although from where I'm standing it looks like the jigsaw is scattered all over the kitchen floor.

Anonymous said...

"29"…as if.

Richard Eastcliff said...

Yep, 29. That's what it says on my Facebook page, and who am I to disbelieve them!

Anonymous said...

Oh well then. I stand corrected and humbled - and didn't even have to pay extra for the experience.

Anonymous said...

I guess the chancers offer was too low then.
Your KM link did not work for me.
KM Manston offer story.

Richard Eastcliff said...

Thanks for pointing that out, 3.35pm. I've corrected the link now.

And on a more general point, the first sign of any Tim Garbage and these comments will be closed. You have been warned!

Anonymous said...

Meanwhile another depressed area is getting the HS1 link to Ashford according to the Transport minister. Yes its Hastings and I don't think there will be enough cash for HS1 to Ramsgate as well, but then no airport, no new railway required.

Bemused of Birchington said...

Enough gloating, though it may be premature. The demise of any source of employment in one of the most depressed regions in the UK is to be deplored. Whilst the building of houses is necessary to accommodate the ever increasing population, there must be jobs to encourage people to take up these houses, but of course it may well be the listless and unemployable who are housed, at the expense of the rest of us, and this would be a sad finale to an airfield with a proud history.

Anonymous said...

Far from gloating many in Ramsgate will be positively celebrating now that the blight of night flights, 24/7 cargo ops and training flights has been lifted. Agree it is a sad time for jobs, but with £10K being lost per day they were not real jobs were they? I'm surprised Thanet's Thatcherite dinosaurs aren't celebrating too, after all Maggie was for 'real jobs' too.

Time to get on and plan a real future for Thanet not wallow in the past like Gale, Carter and the other Tories have done with their fairy tales about the airport employing thousands for the past 15 years.

Bemused of Birchington said...

So how would you regenerate the area anon at 4:20 pm. We have a major facility capable of taking the largest aircraft currently flying and it is to close. Proper jobs to me mean employing skilled people such as air traffic controllers, engineers etc, not fast food outlets and the like. The sooner skill levels are raised in this are the better for the prosperity of Thanet. These jobs attract higher wages and therefore greater spending power. And those in Ramsgate knew there was an airfield here long before they moved in. It's like moving to a village and then complaining that the church bells keep them awake.

Anonymous said...

If you are realistic then half of the people working at Manston don't come from Thanet. When the extra 40 Plus were taken on for KLM the airport stated that 55% came from East Kent. The skilled airport workers will have to do what many other people have to do and move to find work.
I do feel sorry for the workers being mucked around and given false hope by the Gale consortium.

Anonymous said...

Bemused - there are plenty of other skilled jobs that could be created Discovery Park already claims to employ 1000 in future growth areas like biotechnology and genetics. Also we could emulate Brighton and use our seaside location to attract jobs in the creative sector such as TV, video games, web design etc etc. These are the jobs of the future they are skilled and high earning. Food is another sector that plays to the area's strengths although you poo-poo it, why shouldn't young people aspire to running a their own restaurants or food and drink companies using good locally produced meat fish fruit and veg?

I think you are living in the past aviation is a mature industry and about as exciting as coal mining to today's youngsters.

John Holyer said...

There you go, one anonymous commentator reveals that 'Manston' was all Maggie's fault.

Anonymous said...

No gloating, but how many real jobs are there? The radio is now reporting that most of the 150 jobs are part time but they still aren't specifying how part-time. I'd like to know how many FTE equivalents there are. 15 years of stuff and nonsense for less than a hundred jobs. Almost anything else would have created more employment, so let's try anything else.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Richard Eastcliff said...

Sorry Cheggers - not only is Garbutt's garbage banned, Garbutt-baiting's banned too.

Anonymous said...

John Holyer Suppose I were to describe Thanet tories as children of Hoser ? Then describe their conduct nowadays as "Hoserite". It would not be a case of blaming Cyril but of blaming the current tory generation of embracing his politics.

Hope this was helpful. Manston is a case of any decision is better than no decision (the false hopes of the past two decades) and so there is at last a definite foundation on which to build (unlike the Hoserite Pleasurama site)

Come on Richard no mention of aq------- comment is within rules

John Holyer said...

Anon 6:31,

No I'm sorry but your pseudo intellectual explanation was not at all helpful. I suspect that you may be conflating the issues. But in truth I do not have the faintest idea what you're talking about. I have no wish to discuss it further bearing in mind that you are only an anon.

Anonymous said...

Bemused
I think that you dont have a clue on how to regenerate an area. Do you think that people want to come to an area that has large aircraft passing low overhead and look out to sea and see a big ferry. No they want to come to a place where its peaceful and not industrial. some one made a comment about Thanet as a holiday destination and compared it to Dorset someone else said they were mad. Well Dorset gets £1.5 billion from people going there on holiday and Thanet is closer to London than Dorset. Throughout the 19-20th century Thanet has had more people visit on holiday then Dorset
Thanet can be wonderful it just needs the right direction

Anonymous said...

What about Cheggers baiting ECR? Surely that's still allowed?

Anonymous said...

All Thanet towns are made for such a purpose

Anonymous said...

The Gales and Harts and Carters and Bayfords and all have simply been clutching at straws with Manston almost certainly due to their complicity in wasting years and millions of pounds of tax and jobs, and still having no plan for regeneration other than this laughable mystery consortium no doubt offering Gloag 99p. They have proven to be idiots and criminals and we need a clearout.

Why have they not resigned already?

Anonymous said...

Clive's Manston Enterprise Zone extension is a non-starter too. Why would Government pump more money into Manston or let TDC keep more of the rates etc?

Government should slash funding to TDC and insist on Special Measures for failure at TDC. The politicians could be deselected and the bureaucrats sacked and tax repaid.

Anonymous said...

What about Higgins baiting, or are we wasting our time?

Anonymous said...

I only moved to the area because of the airport!!

Anonymous said...

Best news I have heard since the relief of Mafeking woken up this morning at 0120hrs by another night flight one of those quiet planes I suppose yesterday hours of overflying being buzzed every 6 mins
the week before three days of the same treatment lets hope the threat of night flights is over for ever,
they knew there were thousands of residents ringing the airport and a no night flight ban when they purchased it Ramsgate was here first,
Stargazer

Anonymous said...

My sympathy for the Mansotn staff losing their jobs is reduced knowing they were allowing night flights and refusing to allow complaints or fines.

Bemused of Birchington said...

You are quite anon at 6:58, I don't have a clue about how to regenerate an area, but it seems I am not alone. The great, the good, and the not so great and good have all tried and none have really succeeded. Thanet has always been a depressed area and sadly looks as if that is how it's going to stay. I can remember Margate in the 1950's when it was packed with holidaymakers, but the availability of cheap flights and guaranteed sun drove people away from the wet seaside. There was a time when Thanet was referred to as dole on sea, nowadays there are more appropriate epithets, some of which might be considered racist, so I will avoid that pitfall. But there is no doubt that until businesses, and I mean big businesses, stay here, and can anybody name a big business apart from Hornby that has been in the area for over forty years, then Thanet will struggle.

Anonymous said...

How do Bournemouth, Torquay etc etc manage with this supposed decline of UK tourism?

Pfizer was lost through incompetence by KCC and TDC having been here for 60 years.

You're right Bemused you don't know what you're talking about.

Anonymous said...

Neither do you 9:28. TDC has only been here for 40 years.

Anonymous said...

I don't think you people want to engage in adult conversation at all, I think you want to bitch about each other in a little boys club

Anonymous said...

Ramsgate needs to start advertising itself in the property section of the Evening Standard… like now!!

Anonymous said...

If I wanted adult conversation I'd go elsewhere - and use my own name! This blog is for laughs and nothing more.

Anonymous said...

You have to laugh at the poor old superannuated airport whingers moaning away in the Gazette letters page last week. "Save our airport" and "It must not happen" and "I flew from Manston once and found it very convenient". What a load of crap. It didn't work because you didn't use it, end of. If you want to pour millions into subsidising it and building fast train links or whatever, then pay for it yourselves you morons, you're not getting a penny of my tax, the 12,000 who have signed the petition could pay for it if they want to keep it going, it'll only cost them £365 a year each lol

At least Mike Pearce's column was bang on the money.

As for jobs at least a Scottish newspaper can report onjectively - "150 mostly part time jobs".

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/business/news/airport-bought-by-gloag-for-1-looks-set-to-close-1.299501

Anonymous said...

Given the sub-Private Eye pastiche, Dungeness was featured in that organ as a flood danger/Fukushima radiation etc...

Anonymous said...

"my granny worked at the airport once and that's why it shouldn't close"

Anonymous said...

Just saw Gale on the news tonight, looking a bit haggard. Still clinging to his unrealistic belief that it can all be saved and refusing to countenance a plan B until all is lost. Thankfully his anonymous bidder has taken the handful of coloured beans off the table. Presumably, reality has dawned and they've realised just how much money the scotswoman could make by developing the site. She's hardly likely to give that up unless they can block the plans. Unfortunately, there's not much chance of that when there isn't a plan B. Way to go Rog.

Anonymous said...

3.43pm.

There's no way on earth the HS1 line is *ever* going to be extended to Hastings or anywhere else, come to that.

The recent "rail summit" was classic pre-election posturing - in a marginal constituency.

At best, sometime after 2019, when Network Rail's next financial plan comes into effect, the existing Ashford Hastings line *might* be electrified and Hastings *might* get some extended HS1 services.

There's no plan and no money to do anything in the next five years, save perhaps get some extra trains and increase the number of trains to places like Maidstone.

Equally, there is no way HS1 is going to be extended into East Kent. The costs would be astronomical (how would you get it round Canterbury?) and would benefit no-one. It'd be no quicker than improving the exisitng line (which is max speed 70 mph at the moment and could probably be improved to 90 in places). There's just not enough distance to get up speed for a High Speed line to have any impact. And it'd cost into the tens, possibly hundreds of millions of pounds to build.

Anonymous said...

Peace and quiet just a few days away. Only the sounds of police sirens, drug deals being made and dogs shitting to go and Ramsgate will be a nice place.

Oh, nearly forgot the politicians. Everything good happens in spite of the nonsense that comes from their mouths, so shutting them up would also improve the area.

Anonymous said...

No John Holyer. You created your own typical Strawman argument. To accuse an "Anon" of blaming Thatcher.

You informed us, that in your accumulated wisdom, you had seen the "Thatcher blame" coming.

I presented you with a local analogy based on the life, times and influence of Cyril Hoser.

This, of course, was not "Pseudo-intellectual" but was a witty punch through your own feeble version of an intellectual guard.

Predictably you came back with ad hominem fallacy based on your refusal to engage with a mere anon in a comment replying to a mere anon.

You really are a bit of a buffoon and would have been better advised to have contributed as an Anon yourself. You would be better advised to at least dignify your name with a comment that is rational.

Are you off to have a whinge, about Anons on ECR, on Michael's blog mate ? I am surprised he keeps letting you get away with your off topic contributions usually on your pet subject of "Anons". I think you may have actually overtaken our Tim on his pet subject of the aquifer.

Mind you congratulations on slipping your anon obsession under the blog moderator radar up to now.

How did Dungeness creep in to thread must re-read. There was a specific nuclear safety inquiry last year there at the decommissioned Dungeness A connected with UK post Japanese tsunami review of nuclear security and safety.

Probably an Anon keeping you all safe Mr Holyer ?

Anonymous said...

I would never make a comment anonymously. But how can you tell?

Anonymous said...

The noise of all the gloaging comments is deafening. I would much prefer the sound of Rolls Royce engines operating on a daily basis. One RR engine takes off every 2 1/2 seconds around the world, Manston should have its share.

John Holyer said...

Anon 8:44,

I do not have the faintest idea of the point you are struggling to make. Suffice to say that you are the only genius with an IQ of 60.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:16,

Personally I would prefer the hum of a Merlin. However, I know what you mean and I agree.

Anonymous said...

Dungeness was shut down - secretly - last Summer because of worries of flooding as with Fukushima and rebuilding the sea wall.

Anonymous said...

Let's hope the MOD fire station is closed too as it's pointless having fire training when there is no airport. Why don't they use Fire Brigade facilities?

Anonymous said...

bemused
You don't need big businesses you just need to make Thanet look nicer a little investment here and no industry there with the great and good held to account for there very bad choices.
If TDC had put half the effort in to getting centre parks at Manston and scrapping the ferry or at least making sure the ferry had foot passengers than they have trying to make the airport work we all would be feeling the benefit. Thanet is built to be a holiday destination and it has all the infrastructure unlike Dorset so lets get on and make it great.
It does not have to be a depressed area it never did

Richard Eastcliff said...

Yikes! Holyer-Than-Thou attacking anons on my blog, when everyone else is making on-topic comments. That's got to be a red card, surely!? I'll make it a yellow for now, but you have been warned.

Anonymous said...

10:57, the Fire School at Manston trains firefighters for all military airfields and installations, not just Manston. Is this to be the next target for your bile.

Anonymous said...

It doesn't 10:57 as it's duplicated with other military sites. MOD waste and if there is no airport then no need for airfield fire training and Tax savings.

John Holyer said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Since Dorset seems to be a very popular place why oh why did those bosses at Manston not think of that and run hourly flights to Bournemouth airport?

Richard Eastcliff said...

In that case Holyer you can fuck off back to wherever you crawled out from. Bye!

John Holyer said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

My point is that Dorset gets a lot of tourism so there is a appetite for holidaying in the uk and that we are well placed to take advantage of that

Bemused of Birchington said...

I rather suspect that the fire training school trains more than those employed at Manston, otherwise every airfield would need its own fire training school, and of course it has nothing to do with the fire fighting crews at Kent International Airport, who sadly will be losing their jobs if Manston closes.

On the point of yellow cards ECR, it is easy to issue a card to a named contributor but there are many anons who on occasion also deserve some form of sanction so how can you do this?

Another local blog now only allows named contributors, and nothing is published until cleared by the blog operator. Food for thought, though you might have already considered this option.

Ann O'Dyne said...

Bemused Of Birchington,

I suspect that it's more the case that John Holyer just gets up ECR's nose.

Richard Eastcliff said...

I have indeed thought of it, Mr B-of-B! For some time, earlier this year, I ran an approval-only system for comments. However, it's a bit of a pain having to check through them all the time, as our local bibliobloke will also testify.

Generally speaking I have no problem with anon comments, as long as they follow my dictum about avoiding off-topic wittering, personal insults and the like. People often feel more free to say what they think (or know) if they can do so anonymously.

I am aware that comments can often degenerate into a slanging match, as it frequently has on other blogs due to the likes of Holyer, Hamilton, Checksfield and Epps. All of whom pretty much use their own identities most of the time, so, er, that kind of disproves their obsession with anons lowering the tone.

Of course, as blog administrator, I reserve my personal right to witter and insult to my heart's content!

Richard Eastcliff said...

I agree, Ms O'D. He is rather like a troublesome bogey.

Or are you accusing him of being my coke guy?!

Anonymous said...

The weakness in the argument, Bemused, is that many offensive, rude, unconstructive and irrelevant contributions come from the likes of "named" bloggers - Holyer being a good example. His, and his cronies', claim that only anonymous bloggers lower standards is completely wrong.

You're right that it is difficult for a site owner to ban specific anonymous bloggers - though Moores has always claimed to be able to identify the source of every anonymous contribution - but removing the offending post is usually a good option. Every site has to have some sort of moderation and oversight.

The flip-side is that Holyer, by having a name (whether true or not), gets away with his offensive rants on the sites that welcome him with apparent impunity.

Anonymous said...

Utter rubbish, 11:50, and you clearly know nothing about MOD training schools. Currently Manston is the one for all three services firefighters and has nothing whatsoever to do with training civilian firemen other than on a co-operation basis.

Perhaps you might like to tell us where exactly these duplicate training facilities are located?

Richard Eastcliff said...

Ah yes, 1:00pm. Biggles' little 'trails of electronic breadcrumbs'. Those were the days! I guess he must have been working for the NSA at the time! Ha!

William Epps said...

How very nice of you to give me a mention, Richard, though cannot recall making much by way of contributions of late. Seems to me that the mindless comment still holds too much sway to the detriment of intelligent debate or even humour.

On the Manston issue, not much really one can add. Can hardly blame the owner for not wanting to lose hobbles of money indefinitely, but perhaps a lack of enthusiasm for the airport in certain quarters and at TDC played a part. Whatever, it changes nothing now.

Perhaps the most important thing now is for people to try to influence what does go on the site and to ensure that balance between homes and jobs is paramount. Infrastructure is also vital lest we have another disaster like WC, where the centre arrived before the supporting roads.

Richard Eastcliff said...

A sensible comment from a named person! Hurrah!

Anonymous said...

I believe that Mr Holyer atognises ECR for his own amusement. This is wrong of him. I do not like it when people make fun of other people.

Anonymous said...

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent-business/county-news/rescue-plan-for-flights-in-15313/

Anonymous said...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Fire_Training_and_Development_Centre

Anonymous said...

I see sir Rog commented again in parliament about manston today. He said it was in his constituency. Is that true?

Anyway, how many times has sir Rog mentioned Manston in parliament verses dreamland - deffo in his constituency- whose demise undoubtedly had a much more disastrous effect to margate - again 100% in his constituency - than manstons demise will to thanet?

I think it's many (manston) to none (dreamland).

Good work fella!

Anonymous said...

I think Roger Gale is a local and national asset. In order to preserve him I can announce that I am in touch with a anonymous buyer. In fact they are so mysterious I can't say who they are but as long as I get plenty of air time and interviews. True, he may not have done much for twenty years (no Ministerial office) but I believe with the right investment and local support Roger can actually be productive. As for those who don't support Roger - I would say that no one who has bought a house in Thanet North could not have realised what a useless MP he is.

Anonymous said...

Manston is in Gale's constituency but only just:

http://www.election-maps.co.uk/electmaps.jsf

It's like someone arguing that it's nothing to do with you if their dog craps just outside your garden gate.

Anonymous said...

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent-business/county-news/rescue-plan-for-flights-in-15313/

Meanwhile Gale is arguing that the closure of Manston would have "national security implications". I suppose so if he means the CIA would have to find somewhere else to use for renditions. Apart from that, no Roger, there are no "national security implications".

And Unite have submitted "two impressive business plans" to Gloag for the airport "which is vital to the local economy". No Unite, it is not "vital to the local economy", it's a money pit that loses £10,000 a day.

Anonymous said...

If Manston is so important as an emergency landing airport when other south east airports have weather problems why don't the owners of Heathrow/Gatwick buy it just for that purpose? Why should KCC or the government step in when these two other airports make over £250 millions profits between them?

Anonymous said...

Good thinking, 9:00, for that would be the answer. Then we could all still watch the planes come and go, particularly when it was foggy or snowbound at the big two. More importantly, the aquifer man would still have something to moan about.

Anonymous said...

More untruths and fantasies in today's paper from the Save Manston lobby.

"A unique asset in East Kent". Isn't Lydd also in East Kent?

"One of the longest runways in Europe". It is not even one of the longest runways in Britain.

"Vital importance as an alternative emergency airfield". Other airfields are available.

"KLM would make more routes available if travellers from Medway, west Kent and so on would use the facilities open to the". They have had 15 years to "use the facilities" and made it very clear they prefer Gatwick, Heathrow, Stansted, Luton, London City and now Southend. Besides KLM, who presumably know a dead horse when they're flogging one, are rumoured to have pulled the plug before Gloag did.

"Come on KCC, TDC and the Government, get your act together and do something positive". And who is going to pay for that? Is the suggestion that £10,000 a day of public money should be thrown at Manston? Because if so count me out.

Even the Lib Dem PPC for South Thanet has jumped on the bandwagon although he somewhat shoots himself in the foot by saying "nobody - from the Prime Minister down to our local authority - should ignore the real facts about Manston".

Fortunately the paper has this week seen fit to publish one or two letters from people who live in the real world, who do indeed point out the "real facts" namely that Manston is an anachronistic money pit that would never get planning permission these days and which has consistently proved itself to be a commercial disaster.

Anonymous said...

We'll said 1.08pm. And 10.20 am. Manston business case would be based on two other airports being out of action.

You should get a job there, or Tdc. With that business acumen, you'll do just fine.

Anonymous said...

So how many diversions to Manston per year? A dozen? Two dozen? And how much per diversion? £500? A grand? I think you're the one who needs to go to business school.