Wednesday, October 09, 2013

Manston Pickle

You know me, I'm not one of those swivel-eyed rabble-rousers who's prone to posting controversial stuff in the hope of whipping up the lethargic locals into a state of revolutionary frenzy.

But no less an organ than the British Medical Journal has just reported a link between aircraft noise, especially at night, and the risk of heart disease and death from stroke. The report confirms what other studies have found, including one large-scale German analysis that concluded there was a 66% increased risk of heart attacks in men, and a whopping 139% increased risk in women, should knackered old jumbos be whining over your bonce while you're trying to get a bit of the old shut-eye.

I've run those odds past Cyril, my bean counter (he's a whizz with an Excel spreadsheet), and apparently that means there's a statistical chance of everyone in Ramsgate being dead by next Tuesday, should RAF London Kent Manston Margate Tracey Emin Maggie Thatcher Schipol International Airport decide to bust the toothless no night flights ban, which, er, it already does anyway.

Meanwhile Manston's bosses Infratil have been on a shindig to Shanghai, where they've decided to offload their other UK loss-making lump, Glasgow Prestwick Airport, onto the poor old Scottish taxpayer. You'd hope they'd be paying Lexy Salmon and his kilted crew to take it off their hands, but we all know from recent experience here on the Ile de Thanet what dunces public servants are when it comes to doing a commercial deal.

With RAFLKMMTEMTSIA up for sale since March last year, what's the betting Thanet Council's cack-handed Chief Executive Sue McGonigal trumpets a fabulous deal in the next few weeks to buy the £4m-a-year lossmaker for a bargain £3.4m, thus saving the twelve jobs at stake?!?!!!!?!!!

Click here to read about the latest BMJ report on aircraft noise.
Click here to read about Infratil's sale of Prestwick to the Jocks.

52 comments:

Anonymous said...

You don't say. Aircraft pollution causes ill-health.

More relevant is the lack of monitoring isn't it?

Anonymous said...

It will be interesting to hear the comments from airport supporters as we have now entered a period where there is a real possibility of Kent county council., ie, all of us, owning and paying for manston's continued failure.

Was they have done with the scot gov and prestwick, someone at infratil will be telling KCC manston will close by the end of November unless they buy it, as no commercial buyer has appeared.

Scot gov have bought the airport to save jobs. Nothing else. Will Tory led KCC make the ultimate socialist move and 'nationalise' a failing business to keep a few employed at the great expense of everyone else?

John Hamilton said...

You have to smile when the nimbys come out to play!

Peter Checksfield said...

Whatever happened to Smeggy?

I pay my taxes, go fuck yourself said...

So JH and PC, would you be happy to pay throw your council tax - assuming we don't pay it for you- down the Manston plug hole?

Anonymous said...

There was not much call for smeg and his cronies was there? It's not as if manston failed because of them.

I like having an airport on my doorstep primarily cos I can't be arsed to travel to gatwick. But I'm not paying for it.

John Hamilton said...

I have tot say, had a good ole belly laugh at that one pay my taxes!

I pay more taxes than all you and your slimy load of whore begotten dole scroungers put together

all you lot want is less progress and more free nappies for your hideous unemployable offspring HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Richard Eastcliff said...

Hmmm. Methinks we have already reached the pinnacle of Thanet debate.

Anonymous said...

Back to the posting, how can a supine council and KCC be equally responsible for the well being of its subjects and in charge of an entity which the BMA is saying is harming their health?

Most things seems to be beyond TDC's legal dept. This little conundrum might make their heads explode.

Anonymous said...

John Hamilton - define progress please.

John Hamilton said...

Anything that gets you and your grotesque nimby minions to piss off :)

Anonymous said...

News of your passing might encourage me to book a holiday to celebrate?

Is that progress?

John Hamilton said...

Is that a threat? bring it on big boy oh I forgot your just a anonymous PEASANT who would shit himself at the meer thought! LOL!

Anonymous said...

And you hide behind a pseudonym, so I don't think it really matters.

Peter Checksfield said...

From a personal point of view I couldn't care less either way, as I have no plans to fly anywhere and they don't keep me awake. But the last thing Thanet needs is yet another huge derelict site, or worse still, more industrial or housing estates. So unless they plan to turn it into a naturist resort or a Showaddywaddy theme park then I support it.

Anonymous said...

ECR, I don't believe what happened in Scotland can happen here. Remember they are a national government, where KCC and TDC are just local. Supporting, buying, maintaining an airport with their diminishing resources while key services are being stopped across the county would be political suicide.

Then again, TDC have shown themselves bereft of any commercial acumen whatsoever. Someone probably signed the contract weeks ago.

Anonymous said...

That's what the 3 mill they were selling the pleasurama site was for. Now they have to raise the cash to buy the dream on site under the CPO. To the owner with plans for 500 dwellings it must be worth 20 mill.

Anonymous said...

That's your problem, Godden junior!

Anonymous said...

Hammy all this aggressive posturing. Have you sensed changes and interim measures in the policing of Kent old chap ? Reckon you can exhibit a bit of threat bravado under the police radar ?

Kent Chief constable to retire after only 3 years in post

And what with that nice Mr Learmonth only having 3 months left to maintain the peace in the county.

The Kent Chief constable job changes hands so frequently perhaps Ann Barnes PCC could use a temp agency to appoint the next one, two, three ......

Hammy, if you pay a lot of tax is it in a job for which you are qualified or is it in a job where you got your qualies at the University of Cyril's Printing Press ?

To clarify things for the younger readership.

Anonymous said...

Let me introduce myself. Gorgeous George, Cyril's accountant and wannabee consigliori.

I am told that someone on this thread is in need of my tax avoidance advice. First you invest in a development at Ramsgate seafront and then you pay me to tell you how it will end.

William Epps said...

Carefully analyse the 19 comments on here and it comes down to about four people repeating themselves. There is no great swathe of opposition really to anything in Thanet, just a handful of the usual suspects who object to everything.

There is very little in our modern world that does not harm our health from mobile phones through processed food to fossil fuel pollution.

How about we go back to walking, horses crapping in the streets, veggie broth and bread home made with flour fetched by legging it to Sarre Mill and back, candle light, wood burners and no jobs. Better rebuild the Minster workhouse.

Peter Checksfield said...

To be fair, most people would be fitter and healthier if they all did that...

I must confess that I got rid of both my mobile phone and my microwave oven, at least partly because I don't really trust them.

William Epps said...

Peter, I have an aging mobile from which I can make calls. My daughters keep offering me there much more modern throw-aways as they upgrade to the latest gismo. I decline because why would anyone want to surf the net or play World of Warcraft while shopping in Tesco?

Agree with you about us all being much healthier, even lived a bit like it in a farm cottage as a child, but it is no longer an option for most of us. Not enough space left and too many folk crowded into our tiny island.

Anonymous said...

Allegedly infratil told TDC a year ago start looking for alternate use of the manston site. What do you think they've done so far?

Anonymous said...

Looks like this has gone off topic somewhat with Peter being paranoid about microwaves and mobile phones. May I suggest to Peter that he is more at risk from the chemicals used to process film. I hope you always wear gloves and use tongs.

William Epps said...

The mind now really does boggle at the last comment, Just what do you think Peter gets up to in his studio, Anon.

As for the telling TDC to look at other uses, not so. Infratil said they would consider selling for other than airport use, but until some prospective buyer proposes an alternative use, TDC are not involved.

Rumour has it that if Infratil manage to sell Prestwick they may then hang on to Manston.

Anonymous said...

Very concerned at any council buying struggling airport sites, as when they've decided that failure can be called they will give themselves planning permission to allow development(houses), make a bomb, up the population and get housing rates forever more. Meanwhile the opportunity or facility is lost for generations to come.

Anonymous said...

Clearly you have no knowledge of the dangers that using film processing chemicals are to the skin etc.

I wonder just what Manston is worth today. Once on Infratils books at over £20 millions and then written down to £7 millions a year ago.
Both Manston and Preswick together are now on Infratils books at £11 millions.
BBC Scotland is reporting tonight that Preswick will be given away for nought.
The success of the KLM services claimed by Manston's Charles Buchanan has surely added some value to Manston - unless of course all is not as successful as claimed for the KLM service.

Peter Checksfield said...

Anon, I certainly did always use tongs back in my darkroom days, though I've now gone totally digital.

William, I did have a mobile for a few years that I rarely used, but I missed the complete freedom of going out rambling or cycling for a few hours and being totally out of contact with the world unless I chose to find a phone box. Even most kids don't have that sort of freedom these days.

Anonymous said...

William Epps. Suggest you read what infratil have said on their website.

Being a publicly listed company, they can't issue rumours, just fact. They will make sell or make cash neutral their uk airports. Sell or close.

If they hang onto Manston, it will be in mothballs.

Anonymous said...

Manston, as a commercial entity, will be worth multiples of its profitability/turnover.

Manston as an airport is worth zero/less than zero as a going concern airport.

Michael Child said...

The fundamental problem with Manston, is that it won’t ever be a transport hub, because most of the spokes of the surrounding wheel contain sea and very few fish fly.

Sorry about that, just pulled my smartphone out of my pocket and commented here in less time than it would take a computer to boot up.

Anonymous said...

You'd have to be pretty dense not to recognise that the Manston saga has entered the end game. Proper airports have a safety zone around the ends of the runways. You can't build in the safety zone. I can't see how they're serious about selling the airport as a going concern when they're planning to build all of those houses on "Manston Green."

Michael Child said...

This is what the airport owners Infratil have to say on their website’s 2013 company report:

4) Disposal group held for sale
The Infratil Airports Europe segment comprising Glasgow Prestwick and Manston Airports is presented as a disposal group held for sale
following the decision of the Group to sell these businesses and the subsequent sales programme. The Group remains committed to the sale
process, and it is the expectation of the Group that a sale will be completed within the next financial year.
2013 $Millions...Loss before tax of discontinued operation (66.3)

Anonymous said...

and there is no 'ban' on night flights . .they are only restricted

Anonymous said...

All that's needed now is the public inquiry into KCC and TDC regulation of the airport by removing the monitors.

And the Environment Agency to rubber-stamp the pollution away.

William Epps said...

Whilst listed companies cannot publish rumours such abound anyway and it is by picking the right ones that people make fortunes from shares.

The clue is in Michael's comment above where he points out that Prestwick and Manston are for sale as a collective. If the Scottish Parliament were to buy Prestwick then that collective no longer exists and the retention of Manston becomes a possibility.

As for sea surrounded airports, there are many very successful ones around the world and what, after all, would be Boris Island?

Truth is we do not know for sure and people are posting according to what they hope will happen rather than any reality.

There will be no public enquiry into the removal of monitors so why keep flogging a dead duck.

Anonymous said...

There is no ban on night flights and there are no credible restrictions either. The fines would only apply to a tiny minority of the most noisy aircraft. So, what is holding Manston back? It certainly isn't the tight regulations.

Anonymous said...

If the sale of Preswick to the Scottish government reaches a satisfactory conclusion then maybe Infratil will also throw in Manston in the deal.
After independence this would be a great asset to the Scottish people, their own piece of England that could even be use as one of their air bases.

Anonymous said...

William, I gather from your naivety you are not a stock picker. Of course infratils first choice would be to sell both in one package. One sale, two problem assets gone.

Your suggestion this makes the retention of manston likely is illogical. They have clearly stated they want to exit they loss making European airports. Manston loses more money, has a fraction of prestwicks passengers, has more existing competition close by, and a government commission has just indicated that competition will get stronger as they are likely to sanction new runways in and around London.

So is your recommendation to buy infratil because you think they are not selling manston?

Anonymous said...

you don't need noise monitors ...
Every aircraft has a noise rating .. and the aircraft that use the airport are known types .. and as has been said, all are in a category that doesn't qualify for fining.
so why insist on having them?

Anonymous said...

I can't imagine you're really as thick as you make out. You know perfectly well that noise monitors are required because airports are major noise polluters and councils are obliged to monitor and control the impacts of commercial activities which may impact on the health of the population. It isn't just noise. The council is obliged to monitor the levels of specific atmospheric pollutants produced by the airport. All of this costs money and the current philosophy applied to these things is that the polluter pays. At the end of the day, if you have an airport is costs lots of money to monitor it and the airport has to pay for this.

Anonymous said...

of course if you that worried you could always move ..

Anonymous said...

Why should I move? I was here long before Infratil. In any event, it isn't going to last much longer is it?

Anonymous said...

But Timothy, you were not there before the airport so live with it sunshine.

Anonymous said...

For the benefit of those who have yet to work it out, Tim Garbutt is the Aquifer man. Check out his own blog, wherein he proclaims himself as a candidate for mayor and parliament, and in it he lists all his pet hates on pollution, arrests, 0% and all.

Fair enough if that is what he believes, then let him argue his case, but if, as usual, he resorts to insults, you know who he is.

Anonymous said...

Why/when were the monitors removed if they're supposed to be there?

Anonymous said...

you, on the other hand, could move to Hounslow...

Anonymous said...

And for the benefit of those that haven't worked it out yet, all the posts about Tim are from William Epps.

Anonymous said...

If that is the case 3:23, why is John Holyer publishing Tim's photo sometimes beside his comments and why did Rick refer to him as Tim Garbled. Think you will find quite a few people have worked out who the aquifer man is.

Lionel Bell said...

I know Tim Garbutt is the aquifer man and I am not William Epps, John Holyer or Rick. I rarely visit blogsites but it did not take long to find out.

Anonymous said...

Why would Hounslow affect the Manston monitors or their removal?