I see the planning application for the massive development behind the Granville on Ramsgate's East Cliff is due to go before TDC's Planning Committee this Wednesday.
To put this in perspective, if this development goes ahead it will be about a third of the size of the proposed Pleasurama development on the front.
As a local resident who will be enormously affected by this proposal to build 38 flats with only 19 parking spaces, I feel that the council should really have given me more notice than a second class letter, posted last Monday, to arrange to speak before the Committee by today.
I have already objected to this development on the grounds of the materials used, the height, and the woeful lack of parking space. I understand that the plans have been altered since they were first submitted in January, and the number of parking spaces reduced even further! Neither the developer's architect - Clague of Canterbury, who I emailed months ago - nor the council, have updated me on any of these issues, despite being able to hold 'public meetings' with the current residents of Granville House and Granville Court.
I agree that the site, which has been derelict for 30 years, needs something done, but if it isn't done in close consultation with the people who live around it, the chances are that we will have yet another Pleasurama debacle on our hands. Yet again, it seems that local democracy and accountability is singularly lacking in Thanet.
Hmmm. Well, Samantha, that certainly is a poke in the, er, eyesore for Thanet Council!
Update: The application was rejected by the planning committee. A victory for common sense, methinks!
101 comments:
There I was reading about some little place that is supposed to be the Viagra capital of UK and suddenly Ramsgate has a huge erection. Perhaps there is something in the aquifer after all or maybe Pfizer flushed some of their chemicals in the water table before they left.
I think this is a development by Englander Group ECR ?
Englander tragedy
Maybe some thought before rushing to comment.
However no doubt about the levels of cyclohexonone. In the first 12 years of a then secret remediation project (Did Broadstairs Town Council not know about this by the way) 470 tonnes of the soluble solvent was remediated just from the Poorhole Lane site.
EA is quite clear in its FOI response. Cyclohexonone contamination of aquifer will remain a problem for the foreseeable future.
Other concerns were about comparatively tiny amounts allegedly stolen maybe ten galls at a time. Given the use of the chemical in back street drugs factories.
Condolences for the loss of two Rabbis in such tragedies.
Sorry, ECR, did not mean to open your thread up to the pollution fanatics. I was just being light hearted.
Gordon bleedin' Bennett!
I don't about pollution, but I certainly feel as if I've got an infestation!
Why is Cllr Epps suddenly posting repeatedly on all the blogs?
Is it political? If it was personal interests he'd just post on one blog?
As an RAF/Manston advocate is he saying there is no pollution at Manston? He seems to be saying that here which of course is complete twaddle.
He clams up too about Thor pollution - which of course would roll downhill into his Broadstairs constituency. No doubt he's got a good reason to do nothing on that too.
Maybe he should stick to idiotic party comments on fracking.
One more thing to add to the "things Tdc are shit at" list
While I'm thinking about it, are they good at anything. Answers on a postcard please, 2nd class stamp required.
Cllr Epps is at Broadstairs council not TDC but would certainly fit on a shit list.
He talks plenty of it.
This building is awful and after 30 years TDC give a weeks notice?
What I do not understand is we are supposed to have 3000+ empty properties in Thanet yet here we are building more flats. Why is that can anyone explain
Because some people prefer to see brand new flats instead of derelict sites perhaps?
do them up as you convert them to flats. According to a recent study older properties will handle global warming much better than newbuilds. Itis cheaper in the long run and they will last longer.
This blight site was purchased by the developer for £165K. He is apparently promising to swell TDC's coffers with tens of thousands if planning permission is approved which makes it a dead cert imo.
Is that the "affordable homes subsidy" the one to replace the slippage caused by TEF missing funds?
9:58 what was that comment for?
Are somebody's pants on fire?
Samantha,
You have a cogent argument. I wish you well.
There is the possibility some of the new build may be used for religious retreat. I don't know.
But given the two drowning tragedies mentioned above it would befit Ramsgate to proffer Mr Englander every assistance the area can muster (and this is one area Ramsgate has expertise) to ensure if their immersion rituals take place here that they are kept safe.
It ill befits a cllr to make a "Light hearted" comment about the aquifer.
In an area that has significantly higher levsls of diabetes, mental illness, ectopic pregnancy, polycystic ovary. And has the highest level in England for chemical cosh medicines prescribed to children.
Viagra humour was apperently not so funny when it was directed at a flag towing Biggles overflying a dust cloud rising from Pfizer.
"Manston Control, Manston Control one's joystick is becoming uncontrollably stiff"
"This is Manston Control are you declaring an emergency Biggles ?"
"Manston Control No I am declaring a part emergency an emergence"
"Roger Biggles for risk assessment purposes are we talking trouser wigwam or trouser walnut whip"
"Manston Control I decline to answer just as I would if you had asked about my RMR Service"
"This is Manston Control who provided your EMT training. To deal with this situation you must divert your thoughts into a fantasy but not about lust"
"Oh I can do that Manston Control. Back when I fought in the Falklands with the SBS. ......."
Anon 11:07 am,
So now you add those that fought in the Falklands to your burgeoning hate list.
What a peculiar and disturbed fellow you are.
Anon 7:01 PM, in response to your query I tend to mainly post on a couple of blogs, rather than all regularly, and perhaps it is self promotion. The only drawback with that theory is that, as I will not stand for election again after my present term, that would be rather pointless.
Thus, it is probably more down to a masochistic delight in seeing what insults I can attract from people like you. There is certainly much pleasure to be had in noting what your limited cells can come up with by way of an attack or insults, though invariably you fall back on your same old rubbish.
Please keep trying because, if nothing else by way of debating skills, you are certainly amusing.
Fair point William at least you're not standing again so that's something positive.
Let's hope you're not drinking or bathing in Thor water until then.
Who does do something on Broadstairs Council and could raise the Thor problem or 0% fraud?
Anonymous 12:02,
I am sure that Broadstairs takes Thor, and indeed all the Norse Gods, very seriously.
Your posts are always an immense contribution to any debate. I cannot imagine what it would be like if you stopped posting, but I live in hope that one day I'll find out.
Oh dear, Anon, you do love your repetition don't you? Both the Thor and 0% issues are historic now, and have been well covered by Michael on his blog several times, as well as being TDC matters outside the remit of the BTC.
Hence it is not a question of which Broadstairs Town councillor would raise these issues, but which TDC councillor would if such were raised with them.
As for your theory of Broadstairs being down hill from the old Thor site, best check your ordnance survey map. Broadstairs is a hilly place generally higher above sea level than the Ramsgate Road.
Sorry to be thick, but where - exactly - is this being proposed?
anon behind the Granville building in Truro Road. well above any flood risk
It used to be a requirement that any proposed development was brought to the attention of neighbours. Yellow signs had to be put up in the area and people who would be directly affected should get a letter. If these things didn't happen the whole proposal would be held up for a couple of months whilst it was done properly.
Maybe we can all discuss a petition, and then do F*ck all about it?
Isn't that what you always do, Anon?
ECR: Rotten boroughs in this weeks Private Eye has Essex Council with a friendly developer and a major Chinese corporation funding a China Business Park with public funds.
Could KCC Opposition Leader Latchford do something similar at say Manston?
It could be called Gateway to China or something similar?
Maybe a 2nd railway/parkway station thingy could be cobbled together too.
Cllr Epps says Broadstairs is hilly and above Thor? Does he live in Broadstairs?
When I walk out of the Albion Hotel I can barely see up the hill past Nat West.
Next he'll be telling us Thor is not polluting at all. Or that any pollution would roll uphill.
And why does he think the 0% corruption is historic? It hasn't even been raised at council yet? And there is no corruption anyway is there?
Who ar ehte TDC/BTC doublehatters who could help the silly old fool with these problems now he's retiring again?
10:24, do you really think calling people 'silly old fools, helps you get taken notice of or receive answers. Try developing some manners and you might be amazed at the results.
Thor water pollution would roll down hill into Margate too.
You're a fool Epps (and that's being polite about it) and you're either telling lies on Thor or being deliberately idiotic.
As a councillor you're both a fool and an irrelevance.
Anon, if you stand on the beach it is uphill all the way to the clifftop. So Broadstairs High Street goes uphill, what an observant little chappie you are.
Indeed 10:33 but Epps was saying Broadstairs was above Thor mercury. Do pay attention.
Will Cllr Epps tell us the BTC-TDC doublehatters if he can't do anyhting?
Epps and Holyer pop up here when Michael puts the Anon censorship on and so nobody bothers replying to them. Probably best to do the same here as it's just empty waffle.
Was there any news on TDC cancelling its own Airport Committee? How will the airport be monitored by TDC?
Ferrygate: council to appoint consultants next month to start to develop a new ferry. So for 3 years they've done nothing. And now they've written a memo.
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet_extra/news/ferry-bid-6103/
Why are we paying for these civil servants?
Epps is saying Thor is not above Broadstairs?
Thor is above us all! All hail the Norse Gods!
Anon at various times, you really are a boring bastard and you get all us other anons a bad name in the process.
The KIACC is not run by TDC, they merely appoint representatives to it. It is still going and publishes minutes of its meetings. Please do your own research and stop asking the rest of us fool questions.
11:15 is the sort of rude Thanet whiner that gives us all a bad name.
The question asked was on the TDC Airport Committee not KIACC you fool.
KIACC has produced no minutes for years - or do you have copies? The meetings aren't open or published - again prove me wrong on the point with a weblink.
You can advise on the TDC Airport Committee if you can as to why councilors have voted to end that?
All hail Thor!! And the Cancer it brings!!!
The councillors were Infratil's poodles anyway. Buchanan tells them what to do - when did Clive even squeak up about the 6am KLM flights?
Anon 11:25, publish your email address and I will send you a copy of the minutes of the last KIACC meeting just a few weeks ago.
10:38, the trouble with you is that unlike the bloggers you criticise you don't have any memories or experience, you have been nowhere, done nothing and are eaten up with jealousy for those that have. That is why your comments are just the same old boring ones over and over again.
1:19, why don't you publish yours instead, that way we can all write to you for it (or better still just post it online!).
2:29 it was you that was asking for the minutes, not me for I already have them. The offer still stands.
"Pollution fanatics". lolz. VERY GOOD BILL! Now run along home because the real world is trying to deal with some issues about the climate. Off you go back to your flat earth society meetings
4:55
Seriously slow on the uptake there for the pollution fanatics comment was a couple of days ago. The only person hereabouts trying to deal with climate issues is you and the flat earth quip you poached of another commentator. You could never be accused of being either bright or original.
"Anon 11:25, publish your email address and I will send you a copy of the minutes of the last KIACC meeting just a few weeks ago."
I'm not the anon you referred to but I have a question that has been puzzling me. Why are the minutes of the KIACC meetings not freely available to members of the public. Why does anon. have to publish his (or her) E-mail address to get them. If the committee doesn't publish the minutes of its meetings what use is it?
5:32 I have no idea. The minutes were sent to me so I assume they must be published somewhere though, it would appear, not on line. You could try the 'Why Not Manston' group as they may know.
The reason I asked the other anon for his email address was because he was saying there are no minutes. I was simply trying to help him out.
So, the minutes are randomly distributed to a sub-set of the population. I do remember that, many years ago, the minutes used to be available online and hard copies were placed in local libraries. I wonder why this changed and who decided to restrict access to the minutes.
Guess you will just have to wonder, 7:12.
Can I have a minute?
Sure you can spare the time?
I was asking about the KIACC meetings/minutesbut I;m not the comments above - when were this year's meetings/next ones and where are the minutes? They're not online anywhere as usual?
Also when was the TDC Airport committee closed by the councillors and who/how is whatever monitoring been done?
It looks like a whitewashing of the pollution and fines.
Anon, there is a public meeting of the KIACC at Manston on the 27th September where Clive Hart has been invited to speak. Why don't you go along and make your objections known. I will certainly be there just for the chance to see your face for a change. Don't let me down.
Putting them online would take hours, not minutes!
Anon, there are notices about the public meeting in town halls and community centres and a press release has gone to the local papers. Not everyone has a PC, but most can read notices and papers.
Accept it, once again you have been shown to have written absolute garbage.
10:37, I think 10:25 was just making a pun on "minutes".
Irrelevant 10:54, I was referring to all his garbage over a long time about there being no KIACC meetings just because he cannot be arsed to find out. I also offered a copy of the last minutes to no avail. He just likes to whine.
Stick the minutes on here so we can all have a read, and when are the meetings? Who attended? Are they not online any more?
Whaat? A KIACC public meeting on 29th randomly announced today? Where? Not the airport again?
Surely it needs to be in Ramsgate so we can take a firm hold of the detail of any of the points on pollution etc?
Anon 11:32, you are never happy are you. It was not randomly announced today, I simply told you about it today. There are notices out there.
The airport is the natural place for a meeting of the airport committee and it is hardly miles away. You were saying there are no meetings and you still find something to whinge about when there is one. I take it by your negative response that you will not be showing your cowardly little face there or speaking up after all. You just carry on moaning in safety with your carer in close attendance.
Where are these notices 11:52 and the online/your minutes?
RTC seems ideal for public meetings by the public airport committee? Public details of the fines and pollution and cleanup?
Why have it tucked far away at Manston with short notice etc etc?
Wasn't the public meeting always in December or has that randomly changed too?
Not sure of your cowardly or childish insults but I'm sure that's the best of you.
Did we ever find out whether Thor was uphill or downhill from Broadstairs and the pollution?
More people could attend KIACC if it was in the town centre. Why not? Buchanan and the councillors and civil servants must be keen to explain the flights and fines and pollution.
TDC are doing no monitoring at all now?
11:52 will no doubt explain all to us when he breaks his anonymity.
Airport meetings usually attract hundreds requiring the school halls as the new town hall is so rubbish.
How about: "we the undersigned are too idle or contaminated to do much beyond paying our council tax"
How about a petition asking " we the undersigned agree not to pay our council tax which will not cause any monetary loss to the council as they have already budgeted for it coming in, it will turn into a debt but will be magicked away by our CEO/CFO"
How do you live with your wit, 2:41? Just deciding which side to butter your toast must take a supreme act of concentration in your case.
I'd be interested to know which airport cheerleader is posting the misleading information above. There are no notices about the forthcoming public meeting of KIACC. It isn't advertised because they don't want members of the public turning up and asking awkward questions like "How much money are you losing?" or "How many passengers per year were you supposed to have by now."
I had a very good flight into Manston the other day, but was slightly shocked to find more people in the welcoming group of border agency customs police etc then passengers arriving.
7:22
Are we to take it you have been to every town hall and community centre in Thanet and can confirm that there are no notices. Strange that because I have seen three so far.
As for all this talk about them not wanting anyone to turn up, what you mean is that you wouldn't however much advance notice you had. You are just wind and piss my friend who goes not further than shouting on blogs.
We must have KIACC meetings in public and at RTC from now on.
Too many lies from TDC and Infratil on the monitoring and fines.
With 2 flights a day by KLM no doubt ending soon and only a Cargolux or Saudi cargo flight we'll need every fine we can get to clean the water supply.
The meeting is in public, you prize twit, that is why it is called a public meeting. Next Friday at 6 PM in the Airport Lounge. Please do try harder.
Pay attention 5:30. Of the supposed 4 KIACC meetigns only this randomly announced one is in public. And at the airport.
All meetings in public and at RTC are required (or the school again if required).
The secrecy and bullshat over Manston air/noise/water monitoring and fines needs to end.
Why would the meetings be held in secret with no minutes and far away from the public and at short/random notice?
Paul Twyman is the Chair isn't he? He must have copies of the minutes and attendees?
Why have TDC councillors voted to end the TDC Airport Committee?
A Saudi cargo flight!!!!
Disgusted to see foul abuse sprayed over the doors to Trevor Shonks' garage in Ramsgate. No doubt the same politically motivated morons who defaced the paintings on the Great Wall. Let's hope the police pull their finger out and catch these appalling people.
Did you return to the scene of the crime, 7:14?
How can it be in secret when we know when it is and are invited? Who says they have to be in Ramsgate? Who says there are no minutes?
I repeat, prize twit!
7:21. If I'm the perpetrator, I'm hardly going to be stupid enough to boast that I've done it on a publicly accessible blog. I didn't do it and the only reason I posted was to say how disgusted I was to see what had been done to the property of a thoroughly decent bloke.
In the Gazette I see that Martyn Heale has been investigating some of the anti-UKIP letters which have appeared and has found that some of the writers don't seem to be on the electoral role.
Some years ago it emerged that one of the people who appeared in the letters page every week was entirely fictitious. As I recall, it was very embarrassing for the editor that he had given so much space to disguised political views.
Given Mr. Heale's investigation and what has happened to the paintings of the Great Wall and Mr. Shonk's garage I am left wondering whether these things are connected.
KENT INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT CONSULTATIVE COMMITTEE MEETING IN PUBLIC
Friday 27th September 2013 6.30pm in the Airport Departure Lounge
AGENDA
1. Chairman's welcome & opening
2. Minutes of last meeting
3. Matters Arising
4. Short introduction to the public part of the Meeting by P Twyman, Chair of KIACC
5. Short presentations from Community Fund recipients
6. Report from the Airport Management (Charles Buchanan, CEO Manston Airport)
7. Thanet District Council (Cllr Hart, Leader of the Council has been invited to speak)
8. Questions from the public and discussion
Members of the public are invited to attend this meeting and will have the opportunity to ask questions after the business of the Committee has been dealt with.
Hear from Thanet District Council and the CEO of the Airport. Hear about the work of KIACC. Make your views known.
Agendas will be available at the meeting.
The Constitution of KIACC provides for one meeting a year at which the public can attend. In recent years, in keeping with our wish to provide a public forum for discussion on airport issues, the Chairman has extended this provision so that the public can not only attend but have the opportunity to speak. So far nobody has objected to this commonsense approach!
After the formal business of the meeting there will be ample opportunity for members of the public to ask questions and make suggestions (but not, please, long speeches). It would be helpful in making best use of time if people with specific questions could let us have them in advance so that they can be grouped together - suggestions to secretary.manstonkiacc@talktalk.net. And if they are not reached they can be passed on to the appropriate quarter for a response.
We look forward to seeing you.
So Manston hating aquifer anonymous your are invited to attend and put your case. I bet that you do not go, you are too much of a cowherd for that .
Yep, reckon you are right there, Anon, for old aquifer/0% man has too big a yellow streak down his back to show his face anywhere. Furthermore, I would not mind betting that very few turn up despite the alleged two thousand odd who were supposed to oppose night flights according to the red half of TDC.
Samantha: how many off-road parking spaces do you have for your home?
Never mind the 2000 who are supposed to oppose night-flights. What about the 126,000 who didn't sign the petition and are, therefore, assumed to be in favour of night-flights. I'm willing to bet that a far smaller percentage of them will be turning up.
How about starting a petition asking " we the undersigned don't want night flights between 11pm and 7am fom manston (except emergency flights) so we can get a good nights kip".
Oh, we did, and 3,000 people signed it and Clive has ignored it!
Wrong, 6:43, roughly 2,000 people opposed night flights whilst roughly 1,000 supported them. Allegedly 129,000 did not sign up, but many of those knew nothing about it as the Labour administration at TDC only publicised it in Ramsgate where they knew there was opposition. Hardly democracy so it proves nothing.
Erm, petition against seagulls anyone? Naked ramblers? Ban politicians?
How about a petition against anon Internet commentators?
Peter Checksfield,
I'm with you, Peter. Trains are nasty noisy contraptions built by those who are just out to get us. Besides they scare the horses. Come to think of it I'm not too keen on horses either with their neighing, noisy clip-clopping along the road and depositing garden manure all over the place. Neither do I like gardens populated as they are with shrill tweeting birds.
When I win the Lottery, it's only a matter of time, I intend to buy a big house in Richmond under the LHR flight path and then start about the exciting task of closing down the Heathrow. Perhaps it could move to Manston. Then Heathrow would revert to the peaceful village that it once was. But then it would be full of noisy horses and birds and I don't like them.
It would also be full of people and I don't like people, they are noisy. Everyone is out to get me. I need peace and quiet to dream up more protests. So that I can order the world in a fashion that will suit me and to hell with the others. No, I'm not mad and I've got a certificate to prove it. All I have in life are my protests.
Twyman seems to have been Buchanan's lapdog: damping down the complaints and fines and pollution.
Why would anyone want the KIACC public committee with 3 secret meetings a year and one in public announced a few days before?
Where are all the other KIACC minutes from this year and last year?
10:10, to answer your question, the minutes are kept in dust gathering files around the various town halls on the planet. After a meeting the minutes are sent out by officers or town clerks, as appropriate, to committee members, those attending who requested a copy, all councillors and other interested groups. They are also available to the public on request.
Shouting about them on a blog site does not constitute a request likely to produce a response so why don't you toddle off to your town hall, if you are allowed out that is, and ask to see them.
A few Manston fanatics throwing insults around don't really explain the pollution and KIACC and TDC's role in reducing this. They don't seem to have done anything except had a few quid for the Cancer Fund.
Clive and Twyman will have had a few meetings with Buchanan and he'll have led them down the garden path.
Probably the Saudi cargo flight will be geared to this KIACC event as another Big Announcement. The 20M passengers would be funny though.
The Parkway station seems to have drifted away again.
Can someone pick up the other KIACC secret minutes/website?
Haha like it Peter.
No doubt a consultation of 1,000 people in Ramsgate would say nobody cares!
A lot of money to spend on an extra train station near Margate - not that it will happen.
A wonderful white elephant if it did though.
Two minor points on the fabric of the town: unpleasant tramps in the town centre and more cars and TDC vans parked on the seafront prom (thankfully not the park now). Even that Beko HGV in the seafront taxi rank.
Where are the traffic wardens?
A competition of snoozing on the job TDC dustmen would be interesting. No wonder the place is filthy.
Snoozing at TDC too! Is there not CCTV inside the council offices? That would be useful. What do they all do?
Snoozing at TDC too! Is there not CCTV inside the council offices? That would be useful. What do they all do?
This is a bit of self-serving flannel below. No it doesn't. it provides for 4 meetings of which 3 are somehow secret. The agenda is rarely raised in advance as with this meeting.
And now how will the TDC Airport Committee (ie the civil servnats and councillors and their evaluation of the airport) be represented if they don't exist?!
"The Constitution of KIACC provides for one meeting a year at which the public can attend. In recent years, in keeping with our wish to provide a public forum for discussion on airport issues, the Chairman has extended this provision so that the public can not only attend but have the opportunity to speak. So far nobody has objected to this commonsense approach"
Good the planning application was rejected.
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